Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 08:54 am
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:

So funny.
If I make and sell car parts for a living, Ripper is willing to pay me for them.
If I make and sell copies of my song for a living, he is not willing.

Joe(clearly something missing here)Nation


Actually, I never said I'm unwilling to pay for art. I just don't think I should be forced to do so at gunpoint. If I view some bit of art for free it shouldn't be a crime.
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 10:54 am
@Night Ripper,
Quote:
If I view some bit of art for free it shouldn't be a crime.

Why not? Suppose you are at the county fair and the artist Lola the Tattooed Lady has a small tent set up for people to come look at her charms for a price of admission. You decide that all you want is a short peek from under the side of the tent, should you be allowed to do that? Afterall, you haven't taken any of her tattoos with you simply by ogling her from the prone position with your head shoved under the canvas, right?

But, given what you have said here about such things, I imagine you would be fairly put out if you were nabbed by the carny boss and put out of the fair. heh heh. But, wait, there's more.

Carnivals International, the company who puts on the fair and represents Ms Lola, has you arrested by the local police for trespassing and theft of services. Now, bad boy, whatcha gonna do?
~~
First, I should put out that if Ms. Lola took a shine to you before her show (maybe she saw just how ripped the Ripper is) and she took you backstage and opened her robe to reveal her um, collection, that would be a free gift, not a crime, but such actions still have to be under the control and purview of the artist, not the consumer, you.
~~
Clearly, and it really is clear, you've trespassed and committed theft. The fine is $200 and court costs of $150. Pay the clerk.

BTW, Ms. Lola and Carnivals International get none of that, to recover the sawbuck you were supposed to pay, they'd have to sue you in Small Claims Courts for agreeing to and violating the implied contract between you and Carnivals Int. wherein admission to the Fair Grounds is free but admission to the "special events and acts" requires a fee.

Please explain where you see the injustice in all this? Who is being treated unfairly? You?

How?
I'm really interested in how you see this.

BTW: I paid the money and Ms. Lola......unggg
Joe(spectacular!)Nation
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 10:56 am
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:

Quote:
If I view some bit of art for free it shouldn't be a crime.

Why not? Suppose you are at the county fair and the artist Lola the Tattooed Lady has a small tent set up for people to come look at her charms for a price of admission. You decide that all you want is a short peek from under the side of the tent, should you be allowed to do that? Afterall, you haven't taken any of her tattoos with you simply by ogling her from the prone position with your head shoved under the canvas, right?

But, given what you have said here about such things, I imagine you would be fairly put out if you were nabbed by the carny boss and put out of the fair. heh heh. But, wait, there's more.

Carnivals International, the company who puts on the fair and represents Ms Lola, has you arrested by the local police for trespassing and theft of services. Now, bad boy, whatcha gonna do?
~~
First, I should put out that if Ms. Lola took a shine to you before her show (maybe she saw just how ripped the Ripper is) and she took you backstage and opened her robe to reveal her um, collection, that would be a free gift, not a crime, but such actions still have to be under the control and purview of the artist, not the consumer, you.
~~
Clearly, and it really is clear, you've trespassed and committed theft. The fine is $200 and court costs of $150. Pay the clerk.

BTW, Ms. Lola and Carnivals International get none of that, to recover the sawbuck you were supposed to pay, they'd have to sue you in Small Claims Courts for agreeing to and violating the implied contract between you and Carnivals Int. wherein admission to the Fair Grounds is free but admission to the "special events and acts" requires a fee.

Please explain where you see the injustice in all this? Who is being treated unfairly? You?

How?
I'm really interested in how you see this.

BTW: I paid the money and Ms. Lola......unggg
Joe(spectacular!)Nation


Trespassing is a crime and rightfully so. If you own property then you get to say how it's used. Could you please come back to reality and tell me how downloading some music is a form of trespassing?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 11:05 am
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper wrote:

roger wrote:

Same answer as for any other kind of theft.


How is copyright infringement theft? If I steal your car, you can't use it anymore. If I make an exact copy of your car, your car hasn't been stolen because you can still use it.

Actually if you make an exact copy of my car you have violated the patent rights of the car's manufacturer. It has nothing to do with the end user at that point.

Copying music you don't have the rights to is NOT the same thing as stealing my CD or stealing my car.

Building a car with replacement parts is NOT the same thing as copying music since you BUY all the replacement parts. I would have no problem with you buying all the individual notes from the copyright holder to build the song yourself anymore than I have a problem with you buying all the auto parts from the manufacturer to build your own car.
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 11:08 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Night Ripper wrote:

roger wrote:

Same answer as for any other kind of theft.


How is copyright infringement theft? If I steal your car, you can't use it anymore. If I make an exact copy of your car, your car hasn't been stolen because you can still use it.

Actually if you make an exact copy of my car you have violated the patent rights of the car's manufacturer. It has nothing to do with the end user at that point.

Copying music you don't have the rights to is NOT the same thing as stealing my CD or stealing my car.

Building a car with replacement parts is NOT the same thing as copying music since you BUY all the replacement parts. I would have no problem with you buying all the individual notes from the copyright holder to build the song yourself anymore than I have a problem with you buying all the auto parts from the manufacturer to build your own car.


I'm arguing against all form of intellectual property rights so holding up patents as a defense of copyright is pointless. They both deserve to be done away with.

You're missing the point anyways. When I steal something I'm making a scarce resource even more scarce. I'm depleting the pool of available resources. That's the reason we have property rights in the first place. If there were an infinite number of identical gold watches all around us at all times and I took your gold watch it would be silly to claim I've done something wrong. Simply pluck another gold watch out of the infinite supply and move on with your life.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 11:08 am
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper wrote:
If I view some bit of art for free it shouldn't be a crime.


I don't think it is always a crime. There's some murky 'fair use' laws attached to copyright. I'm never sure what to make of them, so I pretty much wing it and hope for the best. I don't download torrent stuff...music or movies, as I think that's clearly stealing (not sure if that's what you're proposing doing, though).

I used a picture I found on the internet recently to make a birthday card for a friend (a cat doing yoga) because I couldn't find the card I wanted in the store and I was giving her a gift certificate for yoga classes. I didn't feel it was a copyright infringement since I wasn't using the picture for personal profit (I had no intention of selling it). That's where it gets murky, though...fair use or not?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 11:10 am
@Joe Nation,
Ah, but movie scripts are tricky re copyright, as you can't copyright an idea. I know this from personal experience.
Night Ripper
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 11:10 am
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:
I don't think it is always a crime. There's some murky 'fair use' laws attached to copyright. I'm never sure what to make of them, so I pretty much wing it and hope for the best. I don't download torrent stuff...music or movies, as I think that's clearly stealing (not sure if that's what you're proposing doing, though).


Again, this is an abuse of the term. If I steal a CD then there's one less CD in the world for others to buy. If I download something, nothing changes. How is that stealing?
parados
 
  3  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 11:15 am
@Night Ripper,
Quote:
I'm arguing against all form of intellectual property rights so holding up patents as a defense of copyright is pointless. They both deserve to be done away with.


That is a silly argument since without a means to profit from an idea, no one would ever produce anything based on new ideas.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 11:17 am
@parados,
However, one can't copyright an idea - at least in screenwriting.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 11:32 am
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper wrote:
I download something, nothing changes. How is that stealing?


the new(ish) area of intellectual property law addresses this

luckily for you, you don't have to understand why it's theft, you just have to understand that it is theft
Night Ripper
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 11:35 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quote:
I'm arguing against all form of intellectual property rights so holding up patents as a defense of copyright is pointless. They both deserve to be done away with.


That is a silly argument since without a means to profit from an idea, no one would ever produce anything based on new ideas.


Vivaldi, Bach, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Botticelli, da Vinci...

Do any of these names ring a bell? They are direct refutations of the notion that without copyright we wouldn't have any great works of art.

As for patents... abacus, bicycle, batteries, condoms, clocks, musical instruments, writing instruments, fire, fish hook, plumbing, guns, cooking instruments, locks, microscopes, telescopes, farming instruments, tires, wheels, razors, saddles, glasses, thermometers, etc, etc....
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 11:44 am
@Night Ripper,
Quote:
Vivaldi, Bach, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Botticelli, da Vinci...


Yeah and they ALL profited from their works. They were PAID to do them.

You are arguing that people should NOT be paid .
Night Ripper
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 12:00 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quote:
Vivaldi, Bach, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Botticelli, da Vinci...


Yeah and they ALL profited from their works. They were PAID to do them.

You are arguing that people should NOT be paid .


Wrong. They were paid for the ORIGINAL work or PERFORMANCES of their work. They were never paid for COPIES which is what I'm arguing against. Do you think I'm arguing that I should be able to steal the Mona Lisa? I'm not. I'm arguing that I should be able to make copies of it freely.
ughaibu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 12:03 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper wrote:
Do you think I'm arguing that I should be able to steal the Mona Lisa? I'm not. I'm arguing that I should be able to make copies of it freely.
You can, the Mona Lisa is well out of copyright.
Irishk
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 12:07 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
luckily for you, you don't have to understand why it's theft, you just have to understand that it is theft


The FBI might be able to help him with that lol.
0 Replies
 
Specter
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 12:12 pm
@Night Ripper,
actually, we all perform copyright infringement every day, we just don't realize it.
0 Replies
 
Night Ripper
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 12:12 pm
@ughaibu,
ughaibu wrote:

Night Ripper wrote:
Do you think I'm arguing that I should be able to steal the Mona Lisa? I'm not. I'm arguing that I should be able to make copies of it freely.
You can, the Mona Lisa is well out of copyright.


I'm well aware of copyright laws. It's an example. You are welcome to join the discussion instead of sniping from the sidelines.

Irishk wrote:

ehBeth wrote:
luckily for you, you don't have to understand why it's theft, you just have to understand that it is theft


The FBI might be able to help him with that lol.


This is a forum for rational discussion, not threats. I'm trying to have a discussion and your response is basically "CUZ DATS DA WAY IT IS!" Right, I'm aware of the current laws. I'm arguing that they should be changed. You're welcome to stick your head in the sand if you like but I won't.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 12:24 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper wrote:
This is a forum for rational discussion, not threats.

Night Ripper wrote:
I just don't think I should be forced to do so at gunpoint.


Rational, you say?
Night Ripper
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 12:34 pm
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

Night Ripper wrote:
This is a forum for rational discussion, not threats.

Night Ripper wrote:
I just don't think I should be forced to do so at gunpoint.


Rational, you say?


Right, I dare you to infringe on some music copyrights and wait for the RIAA's notice. Then just let those court dates sail on by. Eventually someone will come to take you to jail. If you resist arrest you will be shot. All laws are ultimately threats of imprisonment or death.

If anyone else wearing a blue costume tries to kidnap you, you are in your rights to defend yourself. If it's a government issued blue costume, they can shoot you dead in your own home and probably get a promotion.
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 09/22/2019 at 05:04:20