20
   

Why Race?

 
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 03:13 pm
@hawkeye10,
I disagree that people are sick of talking about race. I think some people are, but my guess is that they don't feel the effects of inequality in their lives, so it's easier to find complacency and view racial dialogs as being exaggerations.

To paraphrase Ronald Reagan: "When I was growing up, we didn't even know racism was a problem."

A
Really Ronald? Why do you think that is?
T
ebrown p
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 03:23 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
I think it's more than just being a white person ebrown, I think it's also a generational thing, I think race is becoming less of an issue for newer generations of Americans who grew up with less racism.


I am very skeptical about this.

I take the anti-Hispanic rhetoric very personally-- and no, it is not just about "illegal" immigration. It is the assault on "ethnic studies". It is the attempt to silence Spanish. It is references to Miami as a "third world" city. And, of course, it is the widespread lack of concern over ethnic profiling.

But, of course, Hispanics don't have the worst of it.

The big story of the past couple of weeks is the fact that people are building Mosques (can you believe it!) This apparently is controversial to a large number of Americans.

What has happened is that people have worked to define "racism" so narrowly that modern prejudices don't (in their mind) count a "racism". But the attitudes behind racism-- the idea that people who don't fit into a narrow stereotype are not really Americans (and somehow dangerous)-- are just as strong as ever.

Being a brown-skinned Muslim is the hardest thing in the US right now. The public acceptance of blatant prejudice toward Muslims angers me.

Prejudice is still a major problem in the US ... what has changed are the targets.
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 04:01 pm
@ebrown p,
No doubt there is still prejudice, but the notion that racism has not seen significant generational change needs only to look at the color of the president's skin to be debunked.

There is simply no way to legitimately argue that race relations have not improved from generation to generation in America even if there will always be racism in America.
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  6  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 04:04 pm
@snood,
What does it matter how often you raise race? It's an important topic and it is not meaningfully discussed enough.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 06:03 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
I disagree that people are sick of talking about race.
are you often getting into conversations about race in the course of your day? I am not, I find that people want to talk about the economy, jobs, government, corporations, the oil disaster, the weather, terrorism and the war on terrorism, gender bending, the relations between the sexes.........race very seldom makes the grade.
stevecook172001
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 06:13 pm
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:

I think that, perhaps, those of us who are not objects of race too easily overlook those who are.

What on earth does "object of race" mean?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 06:13 pm
@ebrown p,
Quote:
Prejudice is still a major problem in the US ... what has changed are the targets.
not only is it less of a problem than it has been in a long time, but we have over the last decade developed a whole laundry list of new problems or problems that are much worse than they were, all of which are considered by the majority to be more pressing than the current racism problem. Those who insist on talking about race prove by doing so that they can't prioritize, and are instantly dismissed from serious consideration.
stevecook172001
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 06:14 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Not getting into the a2k thread thing....I think that Americans are burned out on talking about Race. We have been at this for half a century hard core, we have developed certain groups of people who can't or barely can ever look past race, and now these people just annoy the **** out of us. There are a lot of things that separate people that are more important that dont get talked about much because "race" has for a long time sucked all of the oxygen out of the room. And also we are fed up with all of this focus on what separates us, a point we got to with the help of Democratic identity politics which constantly throws racial separations into the national discourse. As we saw with the rise of Obama a lot of us now want to talk about what brings us together instead, we want unity and family and working towards a common cause. For us talking about race is now an annoying distraction, we are fed up, and we have begun to shout down you guys who keep wanting to yak about race.
agree with this
0 Replies
 
stevecook172001
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 06:15 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

Quote:
And also we are fed up with all of this focus on what separates us, a point we got to with the help of Democratic identity politics which constantly throws racial separations into the national discourse.


That's funny (in a ridiculous kind of way).

Quote:
. For us talking about race is now an annoying distraction, we are fed up, and we have begun to shout down you guys who keep wanting to yak about race.


By "we" here, you mean white people.





No, but you obviously do
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 06:15 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I disagree that people are sick of talking about race.
are you often getting into conversations about race in the course of your day? I am not, I find that people want to talk about the economy, jobs, government, corporations, the oil disaster, the weather, terrorism and the war on terrorism, gender bending, the relations between the sexes.........race very seldom makes the grade.
yeah I haven't talked about race with anyone since yesterday when my beaner friend was here and she was talking about going to school in california and on all her forms to be filled out was "race" but there was no "hispanic/mexican/spanish" etc so she always marked "other."
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 06:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Those who insist on talking about race prove by doing so that they can't prioritize, and are instantly dismissed from serious consideration.


I don't know about all that...
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 06:25 pm
@snood,
Raise away, Snood. It's always a pleasure to read your stuff and your intro to this thread was no exception.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 06:25 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
I don't know about all that...
or you could put it "they are so YESTERDAY" as in out of date. The point is that they are not a credible witness...they are not taken seriously.

That is my experience, your mileage may vary
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 07:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
"Though the nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards," Holder said.

"Though race-related issues continue to occupy a significant portion of our political discussion and though there remain many unresolved racial issues in this nation, we average Americans simply do not talk enough with each other about race."
http://blogs.suntimes.com/mitchell/2009/02/attorney_general_eric_holders.html

When this speech fell flat (or worse, because it went no where), the media explanation was that Holder is right, and the fact that these comments were not well received proves that we are still a nation of bigots.

I think that it fell flat because most not elites feel that Holder is full of ****....we have talked often of race for a very long time and now we have more pressing problems and don't need this lecture from yet another out of touch elitist, tyvm. We did not respond because unlike he assumes we don't feel the need to feel guilty about not wanting to talk about race right now.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 07:32 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Quote:
I disagree that people are sick of talking about race.
are you often getting into conversations about race in the course of your day? I am not, I find that people want to talk about the economy, jobs, government, corporations, the oil disaster, the weather, terrorism and the war on terrorism, gender bending, the relations between the sexes.........race very seldom makes the grade.

I don't believe this is the proper test for if people are sick of talking about race. The necessity of a racial dialog is dependent on what is happening. So while, I might be inclined to agree that a thread about The Williams Sisters being called strong trivializes racism, it does not mean that real issues of racism are worth talking about. Joe Nation had a thread... er... maybe it was a post on facebook... about marsh land that was taken in GA from liberated slaves to build an airfield and now is not being returned after the airfield is closed. I think that the need for talk on race issues is still very important and the idea of "being sick of" talking about it suggests that these issues are in our past.

A
R
They aren't.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 07:37 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
"being sick of" talking about it suggests that these issues are in our past.
it expresses the opinion that the issue does not warrant the time and attention that some are trying to get for it, considering the universe of other things that require our attention or are interesting. It says nothing about the problem being solved.

EDIT: what man has not had the experience of their woman yaking in their ear demanding attention for this or that problem that we have talked about 1000 times before...like there was any chance that saying the words again was going to change anything? Sometimes talking is not part of the solution, or at least talking right now is not. This is one issue that very much needs some quiet time, until some new eyes or new ideas are around so that we can make progress.
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 07:49 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
"being sick of" talking about it suggests that these issues are in our past.
it expresses the opinion that the issue does not warrant the time and attention that some are trying to get for it, considering the universe of other things that require our attention or are interesting. It says nothing about the problem being solved.

If the issue effected you, you'd probably think it warranted the time and attention. Sorry to bore you with a burden that is optional for you to acknowledge.

hawkeye10 wrote:

EDIT: what man has not had the experience of their woman yaking in their ear demanding attention for this or that problem that we have talked about 1000 times before...like there was any chance that saying the words again was going to change anything? Sometimes talking is not part of the solution, or at least talking right now is not. This is one issue that very much needs some quiet time, until some new eyes or new ideas are around so that we can make progress.

If this is your experience hawkeye, I'd wager that the fact that you need to be told 1000 times suggests something about the listener.

"This issue" is not one singular thing. The dialog on race relations is about as dynamic as they come. Perhaps there is too much talk, but to suggest "quiet time" is about as stupid as it comes. The advances that have been made for equality did not come from using indoor voices.

A
R
T
snood
 
  3  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 08:07 pm
Thanks to all for their thoughtful responses. Robert G - I certainly think there's room for grownups to agree to disagree about the things I've raised, and that's very cool with me. It's even cooler when someone - like you - bothers to disagree without being disagreeable - like you did.

The point has been raised by a couple of people that it is easier for those that racial matters affect the least to skip thinking about or discussing it. I agree -The simple fact of the matter is that everyone actually doesn't have the luxury of the option of whether to deal with it or not.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 08:17 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
If the issue effected you, you'd probably think it warranted the time and attention. Sorry to bore you with a burden that is optional for you to acknowledge
There is a problem in that some groups of people are not doing very well, but that may or may not be a problem that I should take ownership of. Generally speaking it is the responsibility of the individual to try to put out the fire before he calls the fire department for help....I see far too many people who whine about their real or imagined problems but who don't show any willingness to lift a finger to make their lives better. If it is not worth their time and effort it is certainly not worth mine. You will recall this was my argument that we should supply short term emergency aid to Haiti, and then leave given that they have never shown any willingness to fix what is wrong with their society. Their misery and destitution is not my problem at the moment, it is theirs.

I am also thinking about why women are doing so well now... Two generations a women were willing to work twice as hard as the men just to be equal, this has made them very good at what they do and has almost universally earned them the respect of men. And for the most part they did it without whining about how unfair a demand this was on them.

Blacks and perhaps Hispanics should learn something from this example. The other racial groups have already learned the lesson, they are well on their way...
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 08:27 pm
I wonder what another author doing a Black Like Me would see in the America of today.
0 Replies
 
 

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