8
   

senility, a question.

 
 
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 10:58 am
let''s say you've known someone for a number of years and although you've always been aware of personality/cognitive "quirks" you've basically just ignored them as in "well, that's just the way they are", but over the past few years you've become more aware of this persons dysfunctions. Could this be the result of the gradual development of senility or just your becoming more aware of the same deficits that have always been present?
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 11:01 am
Maybe a little of both? Do you know any older than them family of the person in question? Perhaps it is a family trait to be that way as they age.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 11:33 am
@dyslexia,
There's a 3rd possibility. Your own perception of said quirks may be affected by subjective filtering applying to you, the observer, alone.
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 11:35 am
@dyslexia,
I agree that it could be either or both. Some of it could fall into the realm of discovering that the traits that attract us to an individual (not necessarily romantically, although that applies too) are the very same traits that drive us bonkers over time.

There's also the very real possibility that senility magnifies those quirks. I was having a discussion recently with someone whose aging parents are both showing signs of dementia. The laid back parent is more laid back than ever. The parent who was more of an in your face type is more in their faces than ever before.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 11:36 am
@High Seas,
yes, that's certainly a possibility.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 11:48 am
@dyslexia,
I found the information in this article helpful to me in deciding what was senility and what was a typical personality quirk:

Quote:
Most of us will slow down a bit, physically and mentally, as we get older ' but there's a big difference between occasional forgetfulness and senility, or senile dementia. Here's what to look for if you are concerned that someone in your family may be suffering from this condition, which is often connected with Alzheimer's disease.


Step 1

Consider the family history. Is there a background of senile dementia or Alzheimer's disease? There is often a genetic predisposition toward this condition in members of the same family.

Step 2

Look for signs of memory loss and language difficulties. Is the person losing words, or forgetting the names of common objects? Has he or she forgotten how to do simple mathematics?

Step 3

Watch out for confusion and loss of attention span. Is the person unable to focus on a normal conversation? Does he or she get mixed up when trying to perform basic tasks?

Step 4

Rule out undiagnosed hearing or vision loss. These may hinder a person's ability to communicate effectively, and can make someone seem more confused than he or she really is.

Step 5

Monitor inappropriate behavior and impaired judgment. If the person begins to act inappropriately or significantly out of character in social situations, he or she may be showing signs of senile dementia.

Step 6

Look out for mood changes, irritability or emotional agitation. Often, people in the early stages of senile dementia are aware that something is happening to them, and this can be both frightening and depressing.

Step 7

Watch for physical coordination problems and physical confusion. People with senile dementia often forget how to do simple learned tasks that have been part of their daily life for many years.

Step 8

Watch the person walk. Changes in gait are often symptomatic of senile dementia, although they can also be connected with other neurological conditions such as Parkinson's disease.

Tips & Warnings

*
Be extra loving and patient with someone who may be showing symptoms of senile dementia, even if he or she is moody and irritable. The person may be frustrated with himself or herself, and will almost certainly be frightened by these symptoms.
*
People suffering from senile dementia often retain memories from long ago, but lose more recent memories. Spend time talking with them about the things they do remember, and don't take it personally if they forget who you are, or where they are.
*
Sometimes, symptoms of senile dementia can be caused by drug reactions; double-check with your doctor and pharmacist to find out if this is a possibility.
*
Watch out for extremely aggressive behavior ' this symptom is exhibited by some, though not all, people suffering from senile dementia. If the person becomes dangerous to himself or herself or to you, seek professional help immediately.
*
People who exhibit symptoms of senile dementia are often in the early stages of Alzheimer's disease, and should be taken to a doctor and a neurologist as soon as the symptoms become apparent.



A doctor recommended this book to me and I've found it very helpful in understanding my feelings about senility as well as understanding what the older person is experiencing and feeling:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518qGPj%2BTKL._SS500_.jpg


Also found the tips in this book to be helpful:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51UjD2TMUXL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 12:10 pm
If confusion is one of the dysfunctions, medications can play a role, as can other health aspects that can mimic symptoms of senility, whether those aspects are genetically derived or not. I remember back when my mother had what was later clearly alzheimer's, a friend then studying psychotherapy cautioned me that she just might be missing zinc. I haven't looked that up in decades and I've no idea if zinc or any other nutritional deficiency can...mmm.. enhance what could be taken to be signs of senility, or just personality.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 12:20 pm
@ossobuco,
meds came to my mind too, my grandmother had some little idiosyncrasies all her life, a batch of interfering meds made these more noticeable, reworking dosages and combinations helped immensely
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 12:25 pm
@djjd62,
In my experience, some meds exaggerated the symptoms that were already there. Once off the meds, the symptoms have became more manageable.

Chronic pain is also a contributor.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 12:51 pm
@Butrflynet,
Chronic pain, yes.
0 Replies
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 12:52 pm
@ossobuco,
A lack of vit. B12 can cause these symptoms. Zinc facilitates the take in of some vitamines, but I am not sure if this includes B12.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 01:33 pm
@dyslexia,
It depends on what sort of "personality/cognitive quirks" you've noticed. Some of these might have been lifelong traits. What sort of things are you now considering "dysfunctions" and how are they different from what you observed a few years ago?

It also depends on the age of the person. There is normal age related cognitive decline, and this can be rather gradual over many years. It can affect immediate and short term memory as well as attention span, concentration, and retrieval memory. These changes are not considered pathological. A person may forget where they left something, forget why they entered a room, repeat themselves in conversation, have more difficulty reading and remembering names and phone numbers, etc.

Senility, or any of the dementias, is different than normal age related cognitive declines, and these changes are due to underlying neurological conditions and diseases. These declines are relentlessly progressive, destroying memory and intellectual functions, as well as the ability to care for oneself. Generally, these changes progress relatively rapidly once dementia has been recognized and diagnosed. It would not go on for years before you become more aware of it.

Also, mood disturbances, particularly depression, or masked depression, can mimic or intensify cognitive and personality problems, especially in older people. Older people are constantly dealing with loss, of friends and loved ones, as well as the loss of their former lifestyles or routines, like working or driving, and often the loss of their own abilities or feelings of usefulness and independence. They may not appear sad, but might be less interested in things, more negative, more irritable, more withdrawn. Depression can be a very common and significant problem.

Something you've noticed in someone for years, which seems to be becoming more marked, is most likely related to normal age-related declines, perhaps intensified by changes in their life circumstances or routines, or social supports, or general state of health, and possibly by mood changes as well. In some cases, the person can go on to develop a dementia, but this is not always the case.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 01:44 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Now that one I'll try to look up - my old boss used to be one of the main authors out there on a B12 related disorder (but I forget all this stuff and it was long ago).
Anyway, most people not living in difficult condidions get enough B12 unless they are vegetarians and don't use a supplement (again, don't trust me, my knowledge is from the past).
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 01:55 pm
@ossobuco,
Studies have also shown that the B vitamins are also significant in Alzheimer's patients.
Izzie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 02:09 pm
@dyslexia,
wanted to say the same as firefly...
firefly wrote:

There is normal age related cognitive decline, and this can be rather gradual over many years. It can affect immediate and short term memory as well as attention span, concentration, and retrieval memory.

...

Senility, or any of the dementias, is different than normal age related cognitive declines, and these changes are due to underlying neurological conditions and diseases. These declines are relentlessly progressive, destroying memory and intellectual functions, as well as the ability to care for oneself. Generally, these changes progress relatively rapidly once dementia has been recognized and diagnosed. It would not go on for years before you become more aware of it.

Also, mood disturbances, particularly depression, or masked depression, can mimic or intensify cognitive and personality problems, especially in older people. Older people are constantly dealing with loss, of friends and loved ones, as well as the loss of their former lifestyles or routines, like working or driving, and often the loss of their own abilities or feelings of usefulness and independence

...




but on the flip side

observor or observee

when i read these words that the "dys" wrote:

Could this be the result of the gradual development of senility or just your becoming more aware of the same deficits that have always been present?


i read it as the perception of the observor's awareness of his/her feelings about the other person's quirks, not the observations of actual quirks or possible onset of dementia in the other person.

on that line, i don't know enough about dementia to know whether the onset of dementia in a person would change the way they see another person - but i could only think that it could do, reading above the info on dementia, but that it isn't necessarily so.

i've seen enough to know that someone with dementia can fear other people whom they don't recognise... and that is solely down to memory loss / dysfunction.

I would imagine, for the altering awareness of the deficits that have always been present in the other person, any negative changing feelings about "other's quirks", could be, but doesn't have to be, related to dementia.


<maybe completely off base here, if so, apols>







0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 02:10 pm
@Butrflynet,
Quote:
Studies have also shown that the B vitamins are also significant in Alzheimer's patients.


Not really.

Quote:

Vitamin B No Help for Alzheimer's
Reducing homocysteine levels doesn't slow cognitive decline, study find
October 14, 2008
By Steven Reinberg
HealthDay Reporter

TUESDAY, Oct. 14 (HealthDay News) -- Vitamin B supplements don't slow cognitive decline in patients with mild to moderate Alzheimer's disease, a new study finds.

The theory was that vitamin B might slow the progression of Alzheimer's symptoms because the nutrient lowers homocysteine levels, which are elevated in people with the disease. Homocysteine is an amino acid produced by the body and has also been linked to an increased risk of heart disease.

"The results of the study indicate that we were successful in lowering homocysteine levels, but this did not translate into cognitive or clinical benefits," said lead researcher Dr. Paul S. Aisen, a professor at the University of California, San Diego, Department of Neurosciences. "The disappointing conclusion is that high-dose B vitamin treatment is not helpful in Alzheimer's disease."

Aisen thinks this study clearly demonstrates that people should not be taking vitamin B thinking it will combat the disease.

"This treatment is not useful and should not be recommended," Aisen said. "Because Alzheimer's disease is one of the major health-care problems in this country and worldwide, and because our current treatments are not adequately effective, many people are seeking alternatives, and one alternative has been to use vitamin therapy."

The findings were published in the Oct. 15 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association.

For the study, Aisen's group randomly assigned 409 people with mild to moderate Alzheimer's disease to high doses of folate, vitamin B6 and B12 or a placebo. The researchers then measured the rate of cognitive decline using the Alzheimer's Disease Assessment Scale.

Over 18 months, they found that although vitamin B reduced homocysteine levels, there was no reduction in the rate of cognitive decline among patients taking the supplements. In fact, there was no significant difference in the scores on the Alzheimer's Disease Assessment Scale among those taking supplements and those receiving a placebo.

Interestingly, the people taking high-dose vitamin B supplements had more symptoms of depression than those taking a placebo, the researchers noted.

Dr. Sam Gandy, chairman emeritus of the Alzheimer's Association Medical and Scientific Advisory Council, said this study should put an end to the idea that lowering homocysteine levels helps Alzheimer's patients.

"Since cerebrovascular disease pathogenesis and that of Alzheimer's disease bear some relationship to each other, the hypothesis was put forward that if people were given B vitamin supplements to control their blood homocysteine, then this might lower the incidence of both stroke and Alzheimer's disease," he said. "Sadly, for the latter at least, the hypothesis has been rejected: Even among those with elevated homocysteine levels that were normalized with B vitamins, there was no obvious benefit in terms of lowering the risk for Alzheimer disease."

Greg Cole, a professor of medicine and neurology at the University of California, Los Angeles, thinks that once Alzheimer's is diagnosed, treating risk factors may not help in slowing the disease's progression.

"Like similar studies with antioxidants, anti-inflammatory drugs and estrogen, this study suggests that treating the risk factors for Alzheimer's after the patients have established disease is not useful and may even be harmful," he said.

Pamela Mason, a spokeswoman for the Health Supplements Information Service, cautioned that vitamin B is a dietary supplement, not a drug, and shouldn't be expected to perform like a drug.

"This is yet another study attempting to use high-dose vitamin supplements like drugs in the treatment and prevention of disease," Mason said in a news release. "B vitamin supplements are not intended to be taken like drugs to prevent or treat Alzheimer's disease. People should not be taking them for this purpose. They are health supplements, and their role is in helping to maintain good health, particularly in those large numbers of adults whose dietary intake is low. This study, like many other recent studies evaluating vitamins, does not address the issue of health maintenance."
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2008/10/14/vitamin-b-no-help-for-alzheimers.html
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 02:22 pm
@firefly,
Not as a cure by increasing B vitamins, but as a chronic deficiency. I battle a life-long chronic deficiency in B vitamins and will probably be more vulnerable to "senior moments" when I am older.

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitaminb12.asp

http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/12/3/389

0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 08:12 am
@dyslexia,
dys- I run a support group for caregivers. As it developed, we found that the vast majority of the people who came to the group had a parent or spouse had either Alzheimer's Disease or some other dementia.

Over and over again I have learned that many of the people who were afflicted showed signs of dementia for many (even up to 10) years before they were actually diagnosed. The problem was that the symptoms started so slowly, and accelerated so gradually, that the person observing did not "catch on" until the symptom was quite noticible.

I am glad that "The 36 Hour Day" was mentioned in this thread. That book is the "bible" for people dealing with a loved one with dementia.

Check these out:

http://www.alz.org/national/documents/checklist_10signs.pdf

http://www.alz.org/national/documents/topicsheet_stages.pdf

Remember, as we age, there are deficits in memory that are not precursors of Alzheimers'. If you forget where your glasses are, that may not indicate anything more than normal aging. If you don't remember what your glasses are for, that is another story!
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 08:48 am
@Phoenix32890,
yes phoenix, you have answered part of my poorly written question. My concern though, is not the gradual onset of senility which is a major problem but rather the person who goes through life, virtually all their adult life presenting well within a controlled environment, often quite successfully (on the superficial outside) but withing the confines of family and close friends demonstrates certain personality disorders that are difficult to pinpoint and are certainly not indicative of professional intervention. Then, as the person ages those "quirks" simply become more and more overt resulting in fewer and fewer froendships including avoidance by close family members. I don't think alzheimer's is the culprit, I am thinking a life long under the surface psychosis is more likely with the problem being that the possibility of psychosis is defered/ignored for the preferred diagnosis of alzhiemer's. I realize I'm not explaining/describing very well but I hope this is clearer than my earlier post. I'm not interested in any "google" definitions of alzheimer's.
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 09:00 am
@dyslexia,
dys- I would need to know what sort of behaviors about which you are referring. There are certain personality disorders which the person can control out in the world, which emerges within the confines of the family.
Ditto certain neuroses.
0 Replies
 
 

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