8
   

senility, a question.

 
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 10:16 am
@dyslexia,
dyslexia, I think you are describing with a personality disorder and not an "under the surface psychosis". People with personality disorders can function well in certain environments (like work, or other controlled environments), but can have significant difficulty in interpersonal relationships with family or friends. Personality disorders are lifelong in nature. They are quite difficult to treat.

There is a wide range of personality disorders, and people with borderline personalities, or histrionic personalities, or paranoid personalities, or obsessive-compulsive personality disorders, for instance, can be very difficult to get along with because they may make extreme emotional demands on the people around them in social situations.

Under stress, someone with a borderline personality disorder, for instance, can very briefly decompensate into a psychotic state where they may lose touch with reality. For instance, they might suddenly become delusional and believe family members are trying to harm them in some way. But this is generally very brief and the psychosis will usually abate when stress is reduced. It is due to the temporary failure of adaptive mechanisms rather than to the presence of an underlying psychotic disorder. Other personality disorders, like schizotypal personality, can result in lifelong behavior or patterns of thought which are quite odd or eccentric, but not psychotic.

Aging itself is a stressful condition. There are physical declines, cognitive declines, changes in life circumstances and routines, losses of friends and loved ones. All of this can exacerbate any previous personality problems. The personality "quirks" do become more overt, and possibly harder to put up with or ignore. The person may be less able to inhibit certain kinds of behaviors or emotional reactions, or they may experience more anxiety. And this can result in withdrawal by friends or family if they find the behavior too intolerable, or annoying, or strange, or if they plain don't know how to deal with it. At this point, the person might well benefit from some psychiatric intervention. While personality disorders per se are not treatable with medication, there are medications which can alleviate some of the symptoms or help stabilize the person's functioning. Some supportive psychotherapy might also be useful, particularly if the person lacks good social supports.

None of this should be confused with Alzheimer's or any other form of dementia. Dementias do not generally develop gradually over years. It might seem that way because normal age-related cognitive decline might be followed by the onset of a dementia, thus making it seem as though the dementia was gradual in onset.

More importantly, dementias, particularly in the initial stages, primarily affect cognitive functions and not personality. Generally memory, particularly short term memory, and concentration and attention span are affected first. Difficulty with things like problem solving, abstract thinking, and judgment might then start to appear, along with intensified memory problems. This process continues and eventually begins to ravage all cognitive and intellectual functions. In the early stages, the person may be aware of their cognitive problems, and many become depressed in response to that. In later stages, aggressiveness might appear because of underlying neurological changes. Other people might exhibit extremely flattened affect and show little emotional response, and some may display inappropriate affect. These things are due to the neurological condition or the disease causing the dementia, and, obviously, they might alter personality, but not in a way to increase pre-existing "quirks" or lifelong difficulties with social interacting. If the cognitive problems are not predominant, the condition is not a dementia.

So, it really sounds like you are describing someone with some lifelong personality problems whose functioning may have deteriorated somewhat due to the changes (of all sorts) that accompany the aging process. Rather than withdraw from this person, it might be helpful for friends and family to urge the person to see a therapist, or at least the family doctor, who might be able to make an appropriate referral, if there is concern about how the person is functioning.





0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 01:40 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

Then, as the person ages those "quirks" simply become more and more overt resulting in fewer and fewer froendships including avoidance by close family members. ... I am thinking a life long under the surface psychosis is more likely with the problem being that the possibility of psychosis is defered/ignored for the preferred diagnosis of alzhiemer's.

Statistically there is no age-related mental decline - it only seems so because sloppy statisticians add to the sample of healthy older people the unrelated same-age cohort sample of the ill. Once the demented and otherwise cognitively impaired (for medically undisputed etiologies, e.g. diabetes or alcoholism) are removed from the statistical sample you see no diminution in overall mental functioning. So "as the person ages" isn't a factor per se. Then: you think there may have been some form of insanity there all along? Well I have a crazy aunt who meets that description (Thomas and Walter know her name), always was a bit eccentric but in later years things got worse. In her case the medics are certain her mental confusion isn't symptomatic of Alzheimers - not sure how they can determine that with certainty, but apparently that's now possible - but it's certainly aggravated by extremely strong painkillers she has to take for a number of spinal and other skeletal problems. I don't know why you say Alzheimers' would be the "preferred" diagnosis though; wouldn't just plain crazy be better? There are treatments for that.
firefly
 
  4  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 02:47 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
Statistically there is no age-related mental decline - it only seems so because sloppy statisticians add to the sample of healthy older people the unrelated same-age cohort sample of the ill.


That is not true. Those with known medical conditions or diseases, which can affect cognitive functioning, are not included in samples to measure cognitive functioning of normal older people. Most of those working in this area are neuropsychologists, who are quite well trained in appropriate statistical techniques. Obviously, if you include those with dementia, or cognitive impairments due to disease, trauma, etc., you would no longer be measuring a "normal" sample. There is normal age-related cognitive decline.

Quote:
Declines in memory and cognitive abilities are a normal consequence of aging in humans (e.g., Craik & Salthouse, 1992). This is true across cultures and, indeed, in virtually all mammalian species.
http://www.apa.org/practice/guidelines/dementia.aspx#


The age related declines in functioning are measured by comparing an individual's cognitive performance to his previous level of cognitive functioning.

Quote:
Age Associated Memory Impairment is a common condition characterized by very mild symptoms of cognitive decline that occur as part of the normal aging process. Symptoms confirmed in objective tests include a general slowness in processing, storing and recalling new information, and a general decline in the ability to perform tasks related to cognitive functioning (such as, memory, concentration, and organizing activities). Subjective complaints from individuals with age associated memory impairment often include difficulties remembering names and words. Current understanding of age associated memory impairment indicates that this condition is the result of physiological changes in the aging brain and not a specific neurological disorder. Like every other organ of the body, the aging brain simply does not function quite as well as it used to.

Age Associated Memory Impairment is a condition confirmed when diagnostic evaluation shows decline in cognitive abilities relative to former level of functioning that are not accompanied by evidence of neurological illness or other medical causes. Upon psychometric testing, cognitive performance is within the range of normal for age, and the cognitive decline has no significant impact on the ability to carry out everyday activities in the work or home setting. A diagnostic evaluation for Age Associated Memory Impairment includes neurological examinations, mental status examinations, neuropsychological and psychiatric evaluations, physical examination including laboratory tests, and a review of the patient’s past medical history and medications that the patient is currently taking. An evaluation is complemented by clinical observations of the patient’s symptoms, their onset (sudden or gradual), presentation (how do symptoms occur), and progression of symptoms over time.

Progression

Symptoms of Age Associated Memory Impairment occur very gradually as a result of the normal aging process. Impairment may increase with age, but does not exceed a normal range of functioning for a particular age group.

Causes

Age Associated Memory Impairment is attributed to normal biological changes that occur as a person ages.
http://www.med.nyu.edu/adc/forpatients/memory.html
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 03:18 pm
@firefly,
In the interest of full disclosure I can't tell a "latent psychosis" from a "personality disorder". I'm a mathematician with many years' experience in risk modeling, so can assure you the statistic I cited is correct. There is no inevitable mental decline as a function of advancing age; any appearance to the contrary is a statistical mirage. Throwing psychobabbling terms at mathematical proof will not affect the proof.

ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 03:49 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:
becoming more aware of the same deficits that have always been present?


the observer is aging at the same time - they could just have a decreased tolerance for the quirks/bullshit - that's certainly an issue for me - I am a lot less willing to put up with crap than I was 20 - 30 years ago

and then there's the impact of undiagnosed/untreated hearing loss. Some decades ago, we were told that mrs. hamburger's mother was suffering from dementia. turned out she'd become increasingly deaf and was trying to fake appropriate responses. Once the hearing issue was addressed, she had a number of very good years (until one of her evil daughters' took away/hid the hearing aids).
0 Replies
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 03:52 pm
@High Seas,
what is meant with "historic" is DSM-IV / V ?
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 04:00 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep wrote:

what is meant with "historic" is DSM-IV / V ?
diagnostic and statistical manual volume 4
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 04:12 pm
@dyslexia,
Thât answers my question... not !
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 04:27 pm
@dyslexia,
Dys, I wonder about this as well. I also wonder about the difference between age-related forgetfulness vs. Alzheimer's.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 04:39 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders

Folks are working on DSMV - V now.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 04:44 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep wrote:

Thât answers my question... not !
the DSM published by the American Psychiatric Association is sorta of a catalog of psychiatric diagnosis primarily used for insurance billing/coding.
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 04:58 pm
@dyslexia,
Has a historic personality disorder a cultural element ? I.c. will Americans and European minds differ in this ?
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 05:57 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
I'm a mathematician with many years' experience in risk modeling, so can assure you the statistic I cited is correct. There is no inevitable mental decline as a function of advancing age; any appearance to the contrary is a statistical mirage. Throwing psychobabbling terms at mathematical proof will not affect the proof.


So, how do you explain the finding that nonhuman primates also display age-related cognitive decline?

Quote:


Nonhuman primate males more susceptible to age-related cognitive decline than females
February 10, 2005

Yerkes-based finding may help researchers develop sex-specific therapies for humans to guard against age-related memory loss

ATLANTA – When it comes to aging, women may have another reason to be thankful. Research conducted in nonhuman primates at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center of Emory University shows male nonhuman primates are more susceptible to age-related cognitive decline. The February issue of Behavioral Neuroscience reports this finding, which the researchers say has implications for developing sex-specific therapies to help humans guard against age-related memory loss. By observing that older male nonhuman primates' spatial memory, which is responsible for recording environmental and spatial-orientation information, declines at a greater rate than that of females, researchers led by Agnès Lacreuse, PhD, assistant research professor, and James Herndon, PhD, associate research professor, both in Yerkes' Division of Neuroscience, concluded a species' sex may influence age-related cognitive decline.

"Given that spatial memory is sensitive to sex differences in humans and in nonhuman primates, we decided to focus our study on determining how cognitive aging differs between the sexes," said Lacreuse. According to Lacreuse, such sex differences have not been studied frequently in humans, and when they have, the data has been inconsistent.

In the study, the researchers observed a large group of young and elderly nonhuman primates performing tasks that measured spatial memory. The researchers presented each animal with an increasing number of identical disks for which the animals had to identify the disk appearing in a new location.

"We saw young adult male nonhuman primates outperform females, a finding consistent with human data that shows men have a higher capacity than women for maintaining or updating spatial information. What's particularly interesting, however, was the finding among older adult nonhuman primates. While we observed cognitive decline in both sexes, the sex difference no longer existed among aged male and female nonhuman primates. This finding suggested the males' spatial abilities declined at a greater rate as they got older than did the females."

The researchers' next steps are to determine what factors may contribute to the differential cognitive decline between males and females. An example is testosterone, which is known to decline in older men and also to affect spatial memory in male humans and rodents. The researchers also hope to conduct imaging studies to examine whether males and females differ in age-related reduction of specific brain regions involved in spatial memory.
http://forum.stirpes.net/studies/1637-nonhuman-primate-males-more-susceptible-age-related-cognitive-decline-than-females.html


And, it is important to note, that cognitive decline due to aging is not restricted the elderly. Some forms of cognitive decline are evident at much earlier stages of life, as early as one's 30's.

Quote:

There is little age-associated decline in some mental functions—such as
verbal ability, some numerical abilities and general knowledge—but
other mental capabilities decline from middle age onwards, or even
earlier
. The latter include aspects of memory, executive functions,
processing speed and reasoning. All of these so-called ‘fluid’ mental
abilities are important for carrying out everyday activities, living
independently and leading a fulfilling life. When one fluid mental
domain declines others tend to do so also. Second, slowed speed of
information processing appears to account for a substantial proportion
of age-associated decline in all affected cognitive domains, and the
slowing has begun by the 30s, as has the age-associated decline in
some other aspects of cognitive function.
Within the range defined by
‘normal cognitive ageing’—i.e. in people who would not meet the criteria
for dementia or any of the varieties of ‘mild cognitive impairment’—
people differ greatly in the degree to which their brains decline
with age.
http://www.psy.ed.ac.uk/people/lpenke/publications/Deary_et_al_in_press_-_Cognitive_ageing_review.pdf


The scoring of the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale (WAIS), probably the most widely used test of intelligence, corrects for age-related declines in cognitive functioning past the mid 30's.

While I'd like to believe otherwise, I think the overwhelming evidence confirms that we all experience some cogitive declines as a result of aging.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 06:23 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
The DSM IV is published by the American Psychiatric Association. It is mainly used in the U.S., although it is used in other parts of the world.
Quote:

DSM IV
Histrionic Personality Disorder
A pervasive pattern of excessive emotionality and attention seeking, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1.is uncomfortable in situations in which he or she is not the center of attention
2.interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior
3.displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions
4.consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self
5.has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail
6.shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion
7.is suggestible, i.e., easily influenced by others or circumstances
8.considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are
http://www.psychologynet.org/dsm/hpd.html


In Europe, the International Classification of Diseases produced by he World Health Organization (WHO), which includes a section on mental and behavioral disorders may be more widely used than the DSM IV. It also includes histrionic personality disorder with a description very similar to that of the DSM IV.
Quote:

World Health Organization
The World Health Organization's ICD-10 lists histrionic personality disorder as (F60.4) Histrionic personality disorder.

It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:
1.self-dramatization, theatricality, exaggerated expression of emotions;
2.suggestibility, easily influenced by others or by circumstances;
3.shallow and labile affectivity;
4.continual seeking for excitement and activities in which the patient is the centre of attention;
5.inappropriate seductiveness in appearance or behaviour;
6.over-concern with physical attractiveness.
It is a requirement of ICD-10 that a diagnosis of any specific personality disorder also satisfies a set of general personality disorder criteria.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder


The similarity of diagnostic criteria between the DSM IV and the ICD-10, for Histrionic Personality Disorder suggests that there is not a significant cultural element. It would be regarded similarly in the U.S. and Europe.

0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 04:31 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep wrote:

what is meant with "historic" is DSM-IV / V ?

Your question is addressed to me by mistake - I've no connection to psychobabbling manuals. Their absurdity is evident by the very fact there's a different such manual for each country, or group of countries - where did you ever hear of orthopedic or dental medical research varying depending on nationality of issuer? To the point: perhaps you have some knowledge of econometrics, so you'll understand that testing the dependent variable, decline in mental abilities, as a function of the independent variable, age, shows no correlation at all.

Those ignorant of statistics - specifically of multicollinearity, in this case - are unable to see this because they can't grasp that other variables, which do vary as a function of age, are implicated in the statistical mirage involved. Probabilities of strokes, diabetes onset, obesity, trauma, brain and other organ inflammation, various cancers, cardiovascular disease, et al, do increase with age; these are the true underlying determinants of the so-called "age-related" mental decline, not age per se.

To the mathematically naive observer it isn't immediately obvious that "age" is a quick-and-dirty statistical proxy, not a determining factor. It's like saying that snowfall is caused by wearing coats and boots because the 2 phenomena tend to appear together.

It's easy to prove there's no correlation between age and mental abilities by using discriminant analysis. Can post links to mathematics, statistics, econometrics analyses if you're interested, but not sure how else to explain more clearly.
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 04:43 am
@High Seas,
Thank for taking the time to answer. I just took a "neuro-psycological"test and it was a laugh ! Same for the results... I am not demented it seems. How I keep forgetting things ?
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 04:53 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
LOL - how on earth would I know the answer to that question?! Unlike the online diagnostic wizard we have posting on this page, I can't arrive at conclusions through the use of telepathic powers - try reading a horoscope, there's just as much "science" in it as there is in those psychobabble manuals. Perhaps if you posted some additional info I or other posters here could point you to relevant research.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 06:24 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
There is a simple blood test (CRP, for c-reactive protein) that can be done by any lab. It predicts fairly accurately probability of onset of Alzheimer's, other dementias, and many other diseases, including cancer. It's the best statistical predictor in addition to DNA testing:
Quote:
...inflammatory markers may reflect
not only peripheral disease, but also cerebral disease
mechanisms related to dementia, and that these processes
are measurable long before clinical symptoms appear

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1742-4933-2-8.pdf
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 06:32 am
@High Seas,
I look for relevant information about side-effects of pharmaceutical drugs. I want to find out if these drugs can cause or increase the detoriation of the brain by Alzheimer.
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 06:37 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Take the blood test first. The link may be drug > CRP > dementia (or other serious illness), and that's easier to test because it's a direct link. DNA test is predictive as well, do it if CRP result is normal. "Psychosocial" testing can only confirm the onset of advanced symptoms. Too late.
 

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