The Qur'an and/or the Bible

@Fatihah,

Yeah, clearly, you're the fool. I see you don't deny the multiple marriages, including the marriage to Ayesha. Do you have any proof that Mohammed was literate, or that the Quran is an accurate representation of what he allegedly said? Even if you did, what proof do you have that it wasn't just the maundering of a fool, and nothing to do with any "god?"

Yeah, clearly you and all the religionists are the fools around here.

1 Reply

@Fatihah,

Don't know about the goat herd but there are many sources about consummation with Aisha of which this is merely one example

Quote:

Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated that the Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) married her when she was six years old, and he consummated her in marriage when she was nine years old. Then she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death)

Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 5133. See also 5134.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

In other words, you have no proof. For when asked to present evidence that Muhammad(saw) "was an illiterate goat herder who made his way in life by marrying and burying several affluent wives".....and " married and f*cked a nine year old girl".. you provided nothing.

Another deluded non-muslim easily exposed. Debunked as usual.

1 Reply

@fresco,

The hadith clearly says that the marriage was consummated, which also means "to complete" in any dictionary, and does not only refer to sex. A narration of the same hadith states that Aisha began to live with Muhammad at 9 years old, for in islam, a woman cannot be in seclusion with another man unless married. So the marriage was complete when Aisha began to live with Muhammad(saw). Furthermore, even if one implies that it means sex, you still have no point. For there is no harm in consensual sex in marriage at the age of puberty with one who is mature, nor can you prove otherwise. Thus the marriage between Aisha and Muhammad(saw) wwas moral and just.

2 Replies

@Fatihah,

I haven't made a claim, i don't need to prove anything. I have no dog in the fight that Mohammed was illiterate, however, you have not denied that he married several women, and Fresco provided the evidence from a Muslim source that he married Ayesha and f*cked her when she was nine years old. From Wikipedia:

Quote:

Born in about 570 CE in the Arabian city of Mecca, he was orphaned at an early age and brought up under the care of his uncle Abu Talib. He later worked mostly as a merchant, as well as a shepherd, and was first married by age 25.

Note that it says first married, so he obviously was married more than once.

Surah 7:157:

So I will decree it for those who fear Me and give Zakaat and those who believe in Our verses. Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them.

I guess you're just another deluded Muslim exposed. Caught lying as usual.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

The idiocy has no apparent end I see. I never claimed that Muhammad(saw) was not illiterate or did not have multiple marriages, so you continue to sound foolish.
Another deluded non-muslim easily exposed.

1 Reply

@Fatihah,

Fatihah wrote:

The idiocy has no apparent end I see. I never claimed that Muhammad(saw) was not illiterate or did not have multiple marriages, so you continue to sound foolish.
Another deluded non-muslim easily exposed

Liar

Fatihah wrote:

In other words, you have no proof. For when asked to present evidence that Muhammad(saw) "was an illiterate goat herder who made his way in life by marrying and burying several affluent wives".....and " married and f*cked a nine year old girl".. you provided nothing.

Another deluded non-muslim easily exposed. Debunked as usual.

One can only debunk what is not true. You're lying in one of these two posts.

1 Reply

@Fatihah,

Quote:

The hadith clearly says that the marriage was consummated, which also means "to complete" in any dictionary, and does not only refer to sex. A narration of the same hadith states that Aisha began to live with Muhammad at 9 years old, for in islam, a woman cannot be in seclusion with another man unless married. So the marriage was complete when Aisha began to live with Muhammad(saw). Furthermore, even if one implies that it means sex, you still have no point. For there is no harm in consensual sex in marriage at the age of puberty with one who is mature, nor can you prove otherwise. Thus the marriage between Aisha and Muhammad(saw) wwas moral and just.

What twaddle !

Quote:

COKER : Did you eat my oranges Bunter ?
BUNTER: Of course not !..and anyway they were sour !

Frank Richards (author of children's books circa 1950)

1 Reply

@Setanta,

And as you just demonstrated by quoting my post, I never claimed that Muhammad (saw) was not illiterate or did not have multiple marriages. Fool. How does a person quote my very words and still get caught out in a lie. are you being paid to be an imbecile? Because I seriously don't believe that one can be this deluded on purpose.

0 Replies

@fresco,

Your weak rebuttal supports evidence to the contrary.

1 Reply

@Fatihah,

You seem to have a "rebuttal" fetish. Drivel is never worth rebutting.
"Consent" by a nine year old to a charismatic "husband" would hardly be a defense against child abuse in this century as you well know !

1 Reply

@Fatihah,

Fatihah wrote:

The hadith clearly says that the marriage was consummated, which also means "to complete" in any dictionary, and does not only refer to sex. A narration of the same hadith states that Aisha began to live with Muhammad at 9 years old, for in islam, a woman cannot be in seclusion with another man unless married. So the marriage was complete when Aisha began to live with Muhammad(saw). Furthermore, even if one implies that it means sex, you still have no point. For there is no harm in consensual sex in marriage at the age of puberty with one who is mature, nor can you prove otherwise. Thus the marriage between Aisha and Muhammad(saw) was moral and just.

But she was not yet at the age of puberty.

Sahih Muslim in Book 8, Number 3311 wrote:

'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle married her when she was seven years old, and (s)he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he died she was eighteen years old.

Note that Sahih Muslim says that Aisha still had her dolls with her when she was taken to Muhammad’s house as a bride. If she had been of the age of puberty dolls would have been forbidden.

For an in depth proof with multiple hadiths and translations see here.

2 Replies

@mesquite,

You are correct in trying to play the "holy writ" game with those who subscribe to it. But the problem is that subscribers don't admit that selective quotation can be used to justify the whole spectrum of human behavior, from compassion to barbarity. It is the psychological need for "the eternal"..."the certain"...which promotes texts to the status of "sacred"( aka "word magic"). Such irrationality, which was socially acceptable in a pre-scientific age, is rejected by intelligent free-thinking adults.

0 Replies

@fresco,

Another foolish response. The very hadiths that you quote that state that Muhammad married a 9 year old never states that she was abused and states that she was treated with love and kindness by Muhammad and grew to be a leader and scholar. So your argument continues to fail and only supports the fact that islam is a just religion and Muhammad's character is of the best in morality and decency. Debunked as usual.

1 Reply

@mesquite,

The definition of puberty is not "playing with dolls" in any dictionary, thus your point is pointless. Even grown ups collect toys, play video games, and have stuffed animals and beenie babies collections. Aisha was indeed at the age of puberty.

1 Reply

@Fatihah,

You completely missed the point. We are talking about the rules and customs in Arabia during Mohammad's time. it was forbidden for girls past the age of puberty to play with dolls.

Quote:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151
Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

1 Reply

@Fatihah,

You have completely lost your ability to think for yourself . Of course no "hadith" is going to accuse Mohammed of child abuse even though the facts speak for themselves. Instead, since the cohesion of the Mohammed story requires his "purity", various simplistic ad hoc "explanations" are presented to get round those facts. But you are never going to admit that because that "you" has been hijacked by your social conditioning.

The difference between you and an intelligent theist is that the intelligent one understands "holy books" as man made parables and social rules for the less intelligent, NOT the "word of a divinity". He takes on some of the moral positions therein, and may even indulge in group chanting (prayers) as a social and psychological reinforcement exercise which he finds "spiritually" comforting. BUT The intelligent monotheist also sees different varieties of monotheism as arbitrary, tribal, and potentially pernicious.

1 Reply

@mesquite,

And yet we see your claim that forbidden girls to play with dolls pass the age of puberty was an Arab custom is supported by no evidence, thus failing to prove anything again. Secondly, Muhammad (saw) did not follow arab customs but followed the religion of islam, in which nothing in islam forbids playing with dolls after puberty and actually forbids marriage before puberty. Thus it is clear that Aisha was at the age of puberty when she was married.

1 Reply

@fresco,

The idiocy has no apparent end. For if the hadiths clearly do not state that Muhammad performed child abuse then based on your own words, the facts show that Muhammad was not a child abuser. You've just debunked yourself again with your own words.

Thus the evidence is clear that it is your own ideology that is clearly perverted and degrading, not islam. For the only reason why a person would attribute child abuse to someone when the facts show otherwise is because they themselves actually support child abuse. Another deluded non-muslim easily exposed. Debunked as usual.

1 Reply

@Fatihah,

rebutting +debunking = siege mentality

The reality of that "siege" has been instigated by your own extremists , but you are too conditioned to accept it. You not very different from one those otherwise "good Germans" who were so captivated by Hitler's charisma and "message" that they engaged in a self valedictory war.

1 Reply

The Qur'an and/or the Bible

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know