The Qur'an and/or the Bible

Response:The proof has been provided and the answer will be revealed once you take the challenge. Since you have failed to do or at least refuse to, then the fault of not seeing the proof is on you, not me.

And If I challenge you or anyone else to produce a work like that of Shakespeare it would also be impossible, but does that mean Shakespeare is a prophet of god?

Many atheist like to use your example as a rebuttle against the challenge but fail to see the incomparison. Your challenge says to produce a work like that of Shakespeare which is not impossible at all and addresses no specific miracle.

For example, I have written many poems before and have heard poems and novels myself which many would say is better than Shakespeare. There are some people who don't even like or understand Shakespeare.

But what you have done is changed the challenge. I pointed out a specific accomplishment that the qur'an and Muhammad did which is the challenge for those who disbelieve to match. Not to just simply produce another book of literature.

You see, here is the problem. Naturally, as you should have expected, I as a muslim and all other muslims as well will disagree. Let's not forget the other part of the challenge made in ch.4:82 of the qur'an where it asks to find discrepancy in the qur'an. God can not be able to produce a book with any discrepancy and the bible is full of them so this alone eliminates the bible from being the word of God.

Atheist (assuming you are one) always want the believers to provide evidence but never do so themselves. Where is your proof for the statement above?

I don't know why. Only you know best as to why you would want to do something or not.

So you do admit that the challenge is impossible? Your words, not mine.

That's a statement? Where's the proof? Without taking the challenge, all you are doing is stating things without proof.

Again, where's the proof?

Allah poses a similar challenge several times in the qur'an. If you are an atheist,

then Allah asks a simple question and says "how did the universe and life come into existance"?

:The proof has been provided and the answer will be revealed once you take the challenge. Since you have failed to do or at least refuse to, then the fault of not seeing the proof is on you, not me.

First of all It's not supposed to be a miracle, that is the whole point that you have failed to grasp. Inability to do something is not proof of a miracle.

Response: Who said it was? Now you've reduced your argument into putting words in my mouth which I didn't say.

Quote : Fatal Freedoms
Let's suppose that the world's fastest man claims he is so fast because he has been granted his speed from god, does inability to match his speed prove his claim?

Response: Now you're trying to dance around the challenge. Being as though we all come from God, the answer is yes.

Quote: Fatal Freedoms
Secondly if it is not impossible to produce a work like Shakespeare then why don't you prove me wrong and do it. Or as your line of logic would follow, your inability to create work like Shakespeare proves that it is impossible.


Then publish it. And we shall see.

Response: You don't want to answer the challenge and yet you want me to answer yours? It doesn't work that way.


Quote: Fatal Freedoms
If you really want me to provide evidence that people believed in dragons and sea-monsters than I shall. But I suspect you're making this demand in bad light only to send me upon a fruitless goose-chase to drag out this discussion.

Response:It is you who have yet to answer the challenge so it is you who is dragging out the discussion.

Quote: Fatal Freedoms
Do you know what a rhetorical question is?

Response: Yes

Keep telling yourself that sword. You're nothing but a big joke around here.

Typical atheist who can not prove anything he believes in. You got nothing but laughing at those who do not agree with your irrational faith.

First of all It's not supposed to be a miracle, that is the whole point that you have failed to grasp. Inability to do something is not proof of a miracle.

Quote:

Response: Who said it was? Now you've reduced your argument into putting words in my mouth which I didn't say.

Then how is your "challenge" proof? If inability to make a similar text is not proof that the quran is a miracle, then why did you even bring it up? I asked for evidence And so far I have not seen any.

Quote:

Now you're trying to dance around the challenge. Being as though we all come from God, the answer is yes.

How did I know you were going to say that? The point being that inability to match something "good" does not prove it is a work of god.

Quote:

You don't want to answer the challenge and yet you want me to answer yours? It doesn't work that way.

Answer? I already told you your challenge was designed to be impossible. What more of an answer do you want? Yet now you won't attempt a similar challenge. Your hypocrisy is quite obvious to me.

The whole point of my counter-challenge was to show you how your challenge is a meaningless joke that proves absolutely nothing except your need to cling to bronze-age folk tales.

If the only defense you have of your faith is that it cannot be disproven then it is apparent you have no good reason to believe as you currently do.

Quote:

It is you who have yet to answer the challenge so it is you who is dragging out the discussion.

I already answered it. I said it was impossible. What more do you want?

Quote:

Quote: Fatal Freedoms
Do you know what a rhetorical question is?

Response: Yes

Then why did you answer it?

Response: The burden of proof is not being shifted. The challenge being made is coming from the qur'an itself. The qur'an is filled with many logical explanations to prove that it is the word of God but for whatever reason, you do not acknowledge them. So Allah is challenging those in doubt. You can look at it one way and say that the burden of proof has been shifted on you but it is also you that claimed that the qur'an is man-made so it is also the burden of proof on you to prove that it is man-made. So Allah has placed a challenge addressing both scenarios.

Your book claims a deity. It must now provide empirical evidence for it. The book itself cannot be said evidence, it must be found elsewhere, otherwise you fall into a circular argument.

Can this deity be found with NO use of this book? If so, you have something. If not, you have nothing.

Quote: Fatal Freedoms
I already answered it. I said it was impossible. What more do you want?

Response: O.K. my friend. Thank you for your honesty. Then my simple question to you is "why was it possible for Muhammad but impossible for you or anyone else?

Response: A challenge has been provided for those who are in doubt of the qur'an to see if it is from Allah (God) or man in post #12 and further explained in post #17. Instead of taking up the challenge, you want to claim that by not providing evidence that you wish to see that now I don't have nothing to stand on. My friend, the simple fact that you and every atheist here refuses this simple challenge is evidence enough that it is the word of God. Otherwise, you would have accepted the challenge and prove the qur'an as the work of man.

I already answered that as well:

Muhammad lived in a time when a lot of people still believed in dragons and sea-monsters. Also Muhammad was probably a better persuader than I.

Response: Where is the proof that this is the case?

Where what is the case? First sentence or second?

Response: Both if you can.

I can safely say Muhammad must have been a decent persuader if he was capable of starting a religion that would one day be the 2nd most popular in the world. Which simply wouldn't be possible if he were not.

as for dragons and sea monsters i must refer to the abundance of myth and art about them. The Chinese in particular would wait to have their children born on the year of the dragon as it was thought to endow them with the strength and wisdom of dragons.

Response: And in what ways was Muhammad a more decent persuader that made his man made qur'an do things only possible for him but impossible for you or anyone else? This is the question that needs to be answered. What is it specifically?

Response: And in what ways was Muhammad a more decent persuader that made his man made qur'an do things only possible for him but impossible for you or anyone else? This is the question that needs to be answered. What is it specifically?

Such as? Remember, you need to have testable and reproducable evidence for your claims.

Who said it was impossible for anyone else? Nearly every major world religion had a single founder. Except most of them weren't spread at the tip of a sword at least to the extend that Islam was.