0
   

The Qur'an and/or the Bible

 
 
Fatihah
 
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 11:11 am
The two largest monotheistic religions in the world stems from these two scriptures, the qur'an and the bible. But which of these scriptures are the actual word of God? Let's have a dialogue.
 
xexon
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 03:02 pm
@Fatihah,
Cults of the dead. Their masters long gone. Sheep wandering all over the hills.

Easily spooked too.

Belief is a dangerous thing. It is best to do away with it. The only way to dispel belief is with direct perception. Only then will you know what the word of God is.

You'll know it never comes from a book.



x
Fatihah
 
  0  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 11:51 pm
@xexon,
xexon;64329 wrote:
Cults of the dead. Their masters long gone. Sheep wandering all over the hills.

Easily spooked too.

Belief is a dangerous thing. It is best to do away with it. The only way to dispel belief is with direct perception. Only then will you know what the word of God is.

You'll know it never comes from a book.



x


Response: Then how can humankind be guided towards God without some sort of revelation?
scooby-doo cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Feb, 2009 04:30 am
@Fatihah,
Fatihah;64326 wrote:
The two largest monotheistic religions in the world stems from these two scriptures, the qur'an and the bible. But which of these scriptures are the actual word of God? Let's have a dialogue.


None ! God does not exist :thumbup:
0 Replies
 
SWORD of GOD
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Feb, 2009 06:20 am
@Fatihah,
Fatihah;64326 wrote:
The two largest monotheistic religions in the world stems from these two scriptures, the qur'an and the bible. But which of these scriptures are the actual word of God? Let's have a dialogue.


Firstly, this topic has already been discussed throughly (with solid proofs/evidences) in this following thread http://www.conflictingviews.com/religion/all-religions/if-jesus-god-1097.html

And here http://www.conflictingviews.com/religion/all-religions/quran-leads-way-science-video-998.html

Secondly, most of those who will respond to you here are atheists who can not present anyting except laughing and insults (refer to this thread http://www.conflictingviews.com/religion/islam/jesus-muslim-3666.html). They falsely claim to believe in only scientific facts but whenever they are given such scientific facts they will be the first to reject them!
xexon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Feb, 2009 11:20 am
@Fatihah,
Fatihah;64331 wrote:
Response: Then how can humankind be guided towards God without some sort of revelation?


The laws of physics explains this well.

When we examine how a star explodes, and forms a debri field around it, all this expelled matter eventually loses it's acceleration. Then, the gravitational field of the greatly depleted core, starts to attract all this expelled matter back to itself.

As we are extensions of a singular consciousness, we have a source. Beyond what this human perception allows for.

When we have lost the momentum of our human identity, death occurs.

To take on spiritual qualities is to feel the pull of the source of all things. The superconscious.

"God".

The ultimate internet.

Your human identity is just one website on it.



x
0 Replies
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Feb, 2009 11:22 am
@Fatihah,
Fatihah;64326 wrote:
The two largest monotheistic religions in the world stems from these two scriptures, the qur'an and the bible. But which of these scriptures are the actual word of God? Let's have a dialogue.


Neither. Both the words of men.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Feb, 2009 11:23 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;64334 wrote:
Firstly, this topic has already been discussed throughly (with solid proofs/evidences) in this following thread http://www.conflictingviews.com/religion/all-religions/if-jesus-god-1097.html

And here http://www.conflictingviews.com/religion/all-religions/quran-leads-way-science-video-998.html

Secondly, most of those who will respond to you here are atheists who can not present anyting except laughing and insults (refer to this thread http://www.conflictingviews.com/religion/islam/jesus-muslim-3666.html). They falsely claim to believe in only scientific facts but whenever they are given such scientific facts they will be the first to reject them!


Your "proofs" turned out to be none of any such thing. How chewed gum looks is not proof :rollinglaugh:
0 Replies
 
SWORD of GOD
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Feb, 2009 08:41 pm
@Fatihah,
SWORD of GOD;64334 wrote:
.....

Secondly, most of those who will respond to you here are atheists who can not present anyting except laughing and insults (refer to this thread http://www.conflictingviews.com/religion/islam/jesus-muslim-3666.html). They falsely claim to believe in only scientific facts but whenever they are given such scientific facts they will be the first to reject them!



Here is one of those ill-mentality atheists:

Fatal_Freedoms;64337 wrote:
Your "proofs" turned out to be none of any such thing. How chewed gum looks is not proof :rollinglaugh:


[SIZE="2"]Cartoonist Wiley Miller captured atheistatheist!) stands in the rain.
Another behind him under shelter comments,
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 09:12 am
@SWORD of GOD,
Keep telling yourself that sword. You're nothing but a big joke around here.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 10:14 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;64334 wrote:
Firstly, this topic has already been discussed throughly (with solid proofs/evidences) in this following thread http://www.conflictingviews.com/religion/all-religions/if-jesus-god-1097.html

And here http://www.conflictingviews.com/religion/all-religions/quran-leads-way-science-video-998.html

Secondly, most of those who will respond to you here are atheists who can not present anyting except laughing and insults (refer to this thread http://www.conflictingviews.com/religion/islam/jesus-muslim-3666.html). They falsely claim to believe in only scientific facts but whenever they are given such scientific facts they will be the first to reject them!


Welcome back Mr God.

Just like to put you right on a couple of those statements.

At no point have you provided peer reviewed evidence proving the existence of a magic man in the sky. Lots of words, lots of thouhgts, but not one single piece of evidence that ANY of us have been able to verify through testing.

Produce the science that proves a Diety and I will believe, so far you have failed.

When we talk of insults let us take you through a Couple of yours.

Quote:
For those pathetic atheists who hate the TRUTH because it is against their self desires, and who know nothing about anything.


Quote:
Originally stated by SWORD of GOD
.....

Secondly, most of those who will respond to you here are atheists who can not present anyting except laughing and insults (refer to this thread http://www.conflictingviews.com/religion/all-religions/reli...slim-3666.html). They falsely claim to believe in only scientific facts but whenever they are given such scientific facts they will be the first to reject them!


Quote:
Originally stated by Numpty
Well i just found out I am about to lose my job, so you will have to wait.

Got any issues with that?

Origionally stated by SWORD of GOD
Well, I can proceed (continue) with my new evidences and in that case you have no right to return back and argue later about my basic probability methodolgy and no more talk about that atheist video guy (you watched three times!).

Okay ?


No compassion, no understanding of real life.

People in Glass houses should not throw stones.
0 Replies
 
Fatihah
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 01:14 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;64336 wrote:
Neither. Both the words of men.


Response: On the contrary, the qur'an can actually be proven to be the word of Allah (God). In ch.4:82 of the qur'an we read "Will they not, then, meditate upon the qur'an? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy". Also, in ch.2:23 we read "And if you are in doubt as to what we have sent down to our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your helpers beside Allah, if you are truthful".

Here are two logical test to prove the authenticity of the qur'an. When applied, one can easily discover that the qur'an is the word of Allah. You disagree? Then apply the tests and prove the qur'an wrong.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 03:16 pm
@Fatihah,
Fatihah;64351 wrote:
Response: On the contrary, the qur'an can actually be proven to be the word of Allah (God). In ch.4:82 of the qur'an we read "Will they not, then, meditate upon the qur'an? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy". Also, in ch.2:23 we read "And if you are in doubt as to what we have sent down to our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your helpers beside Allah, if you are truthful".

Here are two logical test to prove the authenticity of the qur'an. When applied, one can easily discover that the qur'an is the word of Allah. You disagree? Then apply the tests and prove the qur'an wrong.


The burden is not mine to bare. The Quran has not shown itself to be any better than other holybooks. None show any considerable advantage over the others, only in how certain their followers claim to be, but certainty does not constitute validity. Perhaps if the Quran predicted next years lottery number then I would be impressed.
Fatihah
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 03:25 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;64352 wrote:
The burden is not mine to bare. The Quran has not shown itself to be any better than other holybooks. None show any considerable advantage over the others, only in how certain their followers claim to be, but certainty does not constitute validity. Perhaps if the Quran predicted next years lottery number then I would be impressed.


Response: Very well then. But when a person fails or refuses to take up the challenge it only shows a disfavor to their own logic, not the qur'an.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 03:40 pm
@Fatihah,
Fatihah;64353 wrote:
Response: Very well then. But when a person fails or refuses to take up the challenge it only shows a disfavor to their own logic, not the qur'an.


A challenge made upon a bad assumption. A "begging the question" of sorts. How would inability to produce a chapter like that in the quran prove that it is the word of god? And in what sense must it be "like" a chapter in the quran, and who decides?

Negative proof: Information from Answers.com

In it's most basic sense the Quran is shifting the burden of proof. The Quran must show that it is the word of god rather than asking me to show that it is not. If I had to disprove every book that claimed to be the word of god, then I would be a really busy person.
Fatihah
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 03:54 pm
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;64334 wrote:
Firstly, this topic has already been discussed throughly (with solid proofs/evidences) in this following thread http://www.conflictingviews.com/religion/all-religions/if-jesus-god-1097.html

And here http://www.conflictingviews.com/religion/all-religions/quran-leads-way-science-video-998.html

Secondly, most of those who will respond to you here are atheists who can not present anyting except laughing and insults (refer to this thread http://www.conflictingviews.com/religion/islam/jesus-muslim-3666.html). They falsely claim to believe in only scientific facts but whenever they are given such scientific facts they will be the first to reject them!


Response: Thanks for the links.
0 Replies
 
Fatihah
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 11:26 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;64354 wrote:
A challenge made upon a bad assumption. A "begging the question" of sorts. How would inability to produce a chapter like that in the quran prove that it is the word of god? And in what sense must it be "like" a chapter in the quran, and who decides?

Negative proof: Information from Answers.com

Response: Well, the qur'an is within itself a miracle. Allah is challenging you to produce just a chapter as inspiring and as successful as the qur'an or at least a chapter. Why? Because is trying to show you that it is impossibe, I repeat, absolutely impossible, for anyone to create a religious scripture and use this made up scripture to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. This is the challenge. By doing so, Muhammad conquered all of Arabia. Now, it's your turn. Create your man-made religion and go out into the world, propogating it and see if you can conquer a nation in the same manner. I can guarantee you, you will not only fail, you will fail miserably. You won't even be able to convince the block you live on, let alone a nation. Once you fail, you will be forced to ask yourself a question, "why was it possible for Muhammad but impossible for me"? Then you will come to realize that the only logical answer is because Allah (God) was on the side of Muhammad. Without Allah, even Muhammad would have failed. You still disagree, then take the challenge and prove the qur'an wrong.

Quote: Fatal Freedoms
In it's most basic sense the Quran is shifting the burden of proof. The Quran must show that it is the word of god rather than asking me to show that it is not. If I had to disprove every book that claimed to be the word of god, then I would be a really busy person.


Response: The burden of proof is not being shifted. The challenge being made is coming from the qur'an itself. The qur'an is filled with many logical explanations to prove that it is the word of God but for whatever reason, you do not acknowledge them. So Allah is challenging those in doubt. You can look at it one way and say that the burden of proof has been shifted on you but it is also you that claimed that the qur'an is man-made so it is also the burden of proof on you to prove that it is man-made. So Allah has placed a challenge addressing both scenarios.
xexon
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 11:38 pm
@Fatihah,
No book is the word of God. Just as no object or place can be holy.

Only living people can do these things.


x
0 Replies
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 04:02 am
@Fatihah,
Fatihah;64362 wrote:


Response: Well, the qur'an is within itself a miracle.


And this is the assumption I was talking about. If you start out already with the assumption that it is the work of god, then there can be no proof.


Quote:
Allah is challenging you to produce just a chapter as inspiring and as successful as the qur'an or at least a chapter. Why? Because is trying to show you that it is impossibe, I repeat, absolutely impossible,


And If I challenge you or anyone else to produce a work like that of Shakespeare it would also be impossible, but does that mean Shakespeare is a prophet of god?

Yet as any christian or historian can tell you, the bible has already met the challenge and superseded the Quran in every way. So why then do you not believe the bible?


Quote:
for anyone to create a religious scripture and use this made up scripture to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. This is the challenge. By doing so, Muhammad conquered all of Arabia. Now, it's your turn. Create your man-made religion and go out into the world, propogating it and see if you can conquer a nation in the same manner. I can guarantee you, you will not only fail, you will fail miserably. You won't even be able to convince the block you live on, let alone a nation.


Except the Quran was written in a time when people believed in dragons and sea-monsters, so it is hardly a fair comparison. Even if I could write a religious text that inspired millions to conquer foreign nations, I wouldn't want to. Why would I want to purposefully deceive millions of people and potentially end many lives. For someone to make a religious text with the intention of starting a religion they must believe their own lies or otherwise be entirely despicable human beings. The challenge is intentional meant to be impossible so as to not have people threaten their faith. And why would I go through all of that trouble to prove something that I already know? Even if I succeeded would that prove my work to be the work of god? No, it proves my ability to deceive, which is exactly what the Quran and the Bible does.


Quote:
Once you fail, you will be forced to ask yourself a question, "why was it possible for Muhammad but impossible for me"? Then you will come to realize that the only logical answer is because Allah (God) was on the side of Muhammad.


No it would only show Muhammad was a better writer and persuader than I.


Quote:
The burden of proof is not being shifted. The challenge being made is coming from the qur'an itself.


Which is still shifting the burden of proof. Negative proof fallacy.

Negative proof: Information from Answers.com

Quote:
The qur'an is filled with many logical explanations to prove that it is the word of God


Then show them to me and do not assume they are there. I would like to see this supposed "proof". I've heard there is proof but I've yet to see any, just a bunch of pish-posh sales pitches and assumptions.

Quote:
but for whatever reason, you do not acknowledge them.


I asked for proof and you have not shown me any. The only "proof" so far wasn't proof at all it's a challenge to disprove it.

demand for disproof =/= proof


Quote:
So Allah is challenging those in doubt.


And I challenged you to show me evidence or proof which you have not done.


Quote:
You can look at it one way and say that the burden of proof has been shifted on you but it is also you that claimed that the qur'an is man-made so it is also the burden of proof on you to prove that it is man-made. So Allah has placed a challenge addressing both scenarios.


The Quran was written by Muhammad, and he was a man. If you say he was inspired by god, then show me the evidence. This is the same poor argument Christians give me, yet somehow they both can't be correct, can they?
Fatihah
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 05:32 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;64370 wrote:


And If I challenge you or anyone else to produce a work like that of Shakespeare it would also be impossible, but does that mean Shakespeare is a prophet of god?

Response: Many atheist like to use your example as a rebuttle against the challenge but fail to see the incomparison. Your challenge says to produce a work like that of Shakespeare which is not impossible at all and addresses no specific miracle. For example, I have written many poems before and have heard poems and novels myself which many would say is better than Shakespeare. There are some people who don't even like or understand Shakespeare. But what you have done is changed the challenge. I pointed out a specific accomplishment that the qur'an and Muhammad did which is the challenge for those who disbelieve to match. Not to just simply produce another book of literature.

Quote: Fatal Freedoms
Yet as any christian or historian can tell you, the bible has already met the challenge and superseded the Quran in every way. So why then do you not believe the bible?

Response: You see, here is the problem. Naturally, as you should have expected, I as a muslim and all other muslims as well will disagree. Let's not forget the other part of the challenge made in ch.4:82 of the qur'an where it asks to find discrepancy in the qur'an. God can not be able to produce a book with any discrepancy and the bible is full of them so this alone eliminates the bible from being the word of God.

Quote: Fatal Freedoms
Except the Quran was written in a time when people believed in dragons and sea-monsters, so it is hardly a fair comparison.

Response: Atheist (assuming you are one) always want the believers to provide evidence but never do so themselves. Where is your proof for the statement above?

Quote: Fatal Freedoms
Even if I could write a religious text that inspired millions to conquer foreign nations, I wouldn't want to. Why would I want to purposefully deceive millions of people and potentially end many lives.

Response: I don't know why. Only you know best as to why you would want to do something or not.

Quote: Fatal Freedoms
For someone to make a religious text with the intention of starting a religion they must believe their own lies or otherwise be entirely despicable human beings. The challenge is intentional meant to be impossible so as to not have people threaten their faith.

Response: So you do admit that the challenge is impossible? Your words, not mine.

Quote: Fatal Freedoms
And why would I go through all of that trouble to prove something that I already know?
Even if I succeeded would that prove my work to be the work of god? No, it proves my ability to deceive, which is exactly what the Quran and the Bible does.

Response: That's a statement? Where's the proof? Without taking the challenge, all you are doing is stating things without proof.

Quote: Fatal Freedoms
No it would only show Muhammad was a better writer and persuader than I.

Response: Again, where's the proof?

Quote: Fatal Freedoms
Then show them to me and do not assume they are there. I would like to see this supposed "proof". I've heard there is proof but I've yet to see any, just a bunch of pish-posh sales pitches and assumptions.

Response: Allah poses a similar challenge several times in the qur'an. If you are an atheist, then Allah asks a simple question and says "how did the universe and life come into existance"?

Quote: Fatal Freedoms
The Quran was written by Muhammad, and he was a man. If you say he was inspired by god, then show me the evidence. This is the same poor argument Christians give me, yet somehow they both can't be correct, can they?


Response:The proof has been provided and the answer will be revealed once you take the challenge. Since you have failed to do or at least refuse to, then the fault of not seeing the proof is on you, not me.
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » The Qur'an and/or the Bible
Copyright © 2020 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 09/30/2020 at 02:42:02