Agree or disagree?

@Fatal Freedoms,

agree...

@Musky Hunter,

Depends on the peasant !

0 Replies

@Fatal Freedoms,

Disagree - despite what you think, most people prefer to be led. Over many years of managing people, I have been surprised many times by individuals that I thought were capable of leadership that were very content to work their 8-5 job and not make any waves. Conforming was more important to them than the ability to actually effect change.

2 Replies

@socalgolfguy,

socalgolfguy;62565 wrote:

Disagree - despite what you think, most people prefer to be led. Over many years of managing people, I have been surprised many times by individuals that I thought were capable of leadership that were very content to work their 8-5 job and not make any waves. Conforming was more important to them than the ability to actually effect change.

The quote refers not so much to leadership (because i don't consider dictatorship to be much in the way of leadership) but more so of man's ability to become inhuman if given power.

3 Replies

@socalgolfguy,

socalgolfguy;62565 wrote:

Disagree - despite what you think, most people prefer to be led. Over many years of managing people, I have been surprised many times by individuals that I thought were capable of leadership that were very content to work their 8-5 job and not make any waves. Conforming was more important to them than the ability to actually effect change.

Agreed, I too have experienced similar situations, people who you think would flourish in more responsible roles managing people, often find it very difficult to tell someone what to do.

Also asking people if they want a better paid role with in the company for a little exta work, you will be suprised with the ammount of people 'happy' to stay as thay are, heads beneath the trench going about their daily routine.

Can't do it myself, i manage 80 people on a daily basis and find it simply the best position in the world.

1 Reply

@Numpty,

Numpty;62598 wrote:

Agreed, I too have experienced similar situations, people who you think would flourish in more responsible roles managing people, often find it very difficult to tell someone what to do.

Also asking people if they want a better paid role with in the company for a little exta work, you will be suprised with the ammount of people 'happy' to stay as thay are, heads beneath the trench going about their daily routine.

Can't do it myself, i manage 80 people on a daily basis and find it simply the best position in the world.

Bravo Numpty. By the way, have you seen my old housekeeper, Marcia from Cornwall..? Remember, the one that looks like a hobbit with a superior bosom..?

2 Replies

@socalgolfguy,

socalgolfguy;62601 wrote:

Bravo Numpty. By the way, have you seen my old housekeeper, Marcia from Cornwall..? Remember, the one that looks like a hobbit with a superior bosom..?

Superior bosom?

You crack me up sometimes socal! Very Happy

0 Replies

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;62592 wrote:

The quote refers not so much to leadership (because i don't consider dictatorship to be much in the way of leadership) but more so of man's ability to become inhuman if given power.

Do you find it at all disconcerting that we are in complete agreement?:eek:

3 Replies

@Musky Hunter,

Musky Hunter;62607 wrote:

Do you find it at all disconcerting that we are in complete agreement?:eek:

Not really, politically I'm a moderate.

0 Replies

@Musky Hunter,

Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

0 Replies

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;62592 wrote:

The quote refers not so much to leadership (because i don't consider dictatorship to be much in the way of leadership) but more so of man's ability to become inhuman if given power.

Before we go down that road, we've got to decide what it is to be human, and this is a very tricky question.

That aside, I think that setting the peasant and the dictator as opposites may trick us a bit here too. The economically weak and the autocrat don't necessarily lie at opposite ends of the spectrum. Granted, it would be surprising to find a poor dictator, but I do think that is a different sort of question.

I will agree with the quote, but in this fashion: Peasants would, given the chance, become dictators. However, the peasant will do so in order to wish and whim the problems of life away (something they already long to do). Peasants and dictators (generally speaking, I recognize that there are extremely few, if any, true generalities. Aside from the purely a priori sense.) both tend to lean toward to wish and whim style of dealing with problems. The dictator just has enough guns to do it.

Both species of people come to us from the same place: some form of mysticism or another. The Almighty State is just as mystical (and FALSE) as the Almighty God(s).

P

1 Reply

@physicistphilosopher,

The way I feel is this: People are subject to their environment. I don't think anybody is "born evil" but they become that way.

There was a study that was done where people volunteered for a social project. The volunteers were split into two groups, the prisoners and the guards. The prisoners where locked up in a fake prison and the guards had to maintain the prison and order within the fake prison. These people were supposed kept in these conditions for a month, but the guards started to become verbally abusive and prisoners started to become rude and violent, in essence even thought this was all fake the people started to assume the role they were put in, even the project manager found himself acting similar to a warden so he was greatly disturbed by this and had to end the project prematurely. Now remember that all of the volunteers were average people none of them had any history of violence or abuse but when put into a certain environment their behavior dramatically changed. The volunteers who became the designated guards changed because the "power" they were given had altered their behavior. Very scary stuff.

0 Replies

@socalgolfguy,

socalgolfguy;62601 wrote:

Bravo Numpty. By the way, have you seen my old housekeeper, Marcia from Cornwall..? Remember, the one that looks like a hobbit with a superior bosom..?

The hobbit with the big tits :rollinglaugh: who took a fancy to your bro,any pics socal Very Happy

0 Replies

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;62592 wrote:

The quote refers not so much to leadership (because i don't consider dictatorship to be much in the way of leadership) but more so of man's ability to become inhuman if given power.

All humans have the ability to sack, mame, pillage and destroy if they believe that they are justified in doing so or if think they can get away with it. This is how human nature works and why humans must be controlled by government, religion, social mores etcetera, but I realize that the controls must be stronger for some humans than they are for others.

1 Reply

@jeafl cv,

jeafl;63287 wrote:

All humans have the ability to sack, mame, pillage and destroy if they believe that they are justified in doing so or if think they can get away with it. This is how human nature works and why humans must be controlled by government, religion, social mores etcetera, but I realize that the controls must be stronger for some humans than they are for others.

And what affect does the attainment of power have on this?

1 Reply

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;63293 wrote:

And what affect does the attainment of power have on this?

Power is the ability to sack, mame, pillage and destroy and is thus what must be controlled by the restraints that I mentioned.

1 Reply

@jeafl cv,

jeafl;63299 wrote:

Power is the ability to sack, mame, pillage and destroy and is thus what must be controlled by the restraints that I mentioned.

Interesting. correct me if i'm wrong but you're saying power doesn't corrupt but people are already corrupt and power gives them the ability to act out of their corrupt will?

1 Reply

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;63311 wrote:

Interesting. correct me if i'm wrong but you're saying power doesn't corrupt but people are already corrupt and power gives them the ability to act out of their corrupt will?

Exactly. Humans are wretched beings when left to their own devises. Humans are corrupt by nature. Religion may enable individual humans to overcome their nature (although a false religion can intensify that nature), but for the most part the best we can hope for is that human nature can be restrained by law, force or other societal restraints.

1 Reply

@jeafl cv,

jeafl;63320 wrote:

Exactly. Humans are wretched beings when left to their own devises. Humans are corrupt by nature. Religion may enable individual humans to overcome their nature (although a false religion can intensify that nature), but for the most part the best we can hope for is that human nature can be restrained by law, force or other societal restraints.

I don't agree with that but interesting thought.

I'd have to say humans are neither inherently good nor inherently bad. We are indifferent and then through culture and upbringing we may shift one way or another. And the sheer number of non-religious people who aren't corrupt kinda puts a hole in your theory.

1 Reply

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