1
   

Evolution in the bible, says Vatican

 
 
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Oct, 2007 11:56 am
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;43475 wrote:
The claims like the ones you make above drives Ms. Schweitzer crazy. She is the Christian, God fearing scientist who make the discovery of the T-Rex blood vessels and soft tissues. Geologists have established that the Hell Creek Formation, where B. rex was found, is 68 million years old, and so are the bones buried in it.Geologists have established that the Hell Creek Formation, where B. rex was found, is 68 million years old, and so are the bones buried in it.

Now get me some scientific proof to refute the above or for the sake of all that is sensible, stop spouting this nonsense.

Get some of your creationst buddies to put in some hard work and do some real thinking like this remarkable lady scientist did. She is a Christian but instead of burying her head in one book frozen in time and instead of spouting bull****, she has choosen to get a freaking real education and so something worthwhile for mankind. I suggest you Sir, learn from her and I advise your creationist friends to do the same. Bettert that, then to steal ideas from others and twist them to suit the Bible which is making them lie and cheat like this. Shame.


I'm sorry, it was your evolution buddies that said soft tissue could only last 10,000 years. Where is your scientific study that now changes that theory?
I want to see your proof. Show me the scientific data that changes the theory on soft tissue. When did we go from 10,000 years to 70 million years?
Oh that's right, we went to 70 million years when the believers of evolution were proven wrong again. I guess if your a scientist you don't even need a study anymore, whatever agrees with your theory of evolution must be right. Right!
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Oct, 2007 03:53 pm
@Numpty,
Numpty;43064 wrote:
I am currently reading that book,though I think you mean 'End of Faith' might i point you in the direction of 'Letter to a Christian Nation' by Sam Harris, also a very interesting read.


Don't get your hopes up to high Numpty. According to a CBS news poll taken Oct 23, 2005 only 13% of Americans believe that humans evolved, and God did not guide the process. And after all those years of our public schools ramming that down our throats. WOW.
The poll also revealed that 51% of Americans believe that God created humans in our present form.

Poll: Majority Reject Evolution, 51 Percent Believe God Created Humans - CBS News
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Oct, 2007 08:37 pm
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;43477 wrote:
I'm sorry, it was your evolution buddies that said soft tissue could only last 10,000 years. Where is your scientific study that now changes that theory?
I want to see your proof. Show me the scientific data that changes the theory on soft tissue. When did we go from 10,000 years to 70 million years?
Oh that's right, we went to 70 million years when the believers of evolution were proven wrong again. I guess if your a scientist you don't even need a study anymore, whatever agrees with your theory of evolution must be right. Right!


Here is some Christian-certified" proof (Creation Science Rebuttals, Technical Journal, Dinosaur Extinction
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2007 03:32 am
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;43486 wrote:
Don't get your hopes up to high Numpty. According to a CBS news poll taken Oct 23, 2005 only 13% of Americans believe that humans evolved, and God did not guide the process. And after all those years of our public schools ramming that down our throats. WOW.
The poll also revealed that 51% of Americans believe that God created humans in our present form.

Poll: Majority Reject Evolution, 51 Percent Believe God Created Humans - CBS News


Well I would estimate that 100 years ago that figure would have been a lot lower probably somewhere between 1-5%. So it is you that should not 'get your hopes up to high.. It shows to me slow and steady progress of the American public being de-programmed from the Evangelical Nazi's that seem to want to stop any form of progression in favour of a backward thinking vicous faith, that if taken literaly means if they ever got to power, witch hunts, the burning and the murdering of people for different views on life would be wide spread.

51% you say, well that is encouraging. Again i would say 100 years ago this would have been alot higher, maybe 90-99%. You see what open debate and the abilty of people to make up their mind without opression can do. Your Country has afforded you great liberty. Would you throw it all away for a religous state, like those of the middle east? Because if the majority were like you then you would surely lose it.

Although it may not seem like it, your country is making very slow and steady progress towards 'The End of Faith'. Thank you for helping me to understand this, it must have been hard for you to publish those facts.
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2007 04:03 am
@Numpty,
Numpty;43527 wrote:
Well I would estimate that 100 years ago that figure would have been a lot lower probably somewhere between 1-5%. So it is you that should not 'get your hopes up to high.. It shows to me slow and steady progress of the American public being de-programmed from the Evangelical Nazi's that seem to want to stop any form of progression in favour of a backward thinking vicous faith, that if taken literaly means if they ever got to power, witch hunts, the burning and the murdering of people for different views on life would be wide spread.

51% you say, well that is encouraging. Again i would say 100 years ago this would have been alot higher, maybe 90-99%. You see what open debate and the abilty of people to make up their mind without opression can do. Your Country has afforded you great liberty. Would you throw it all away for a religous state, like those of the middle east? Because if the majority were like you then you would surely lose it.

Although it may not seem like it, your country is making very slow and steady progress towards 'The End of Faith'. Thank you for helping me to understand this, it must have been hard for you to publish those facts.


I live here N, and you are right. The candidature of Rudy Giuliani is a classic example. I have no liking for this man's aggressive posturing on foreign policy but I love the way he is screwing with the high priests of the religious right.

In 2001, when he was chucked out of his Gubernatorial mansion because his wife dumped him, he choose to become a house guest of an openly gay couple, two delightful people: Howard Koppel and Mark Hsiao.

As Frank Rich says in a recent article " no matter how you slice it, the Giuliani position on abortion, gay rights and gun control remains indistinguishable from Hillary Clinton's.

Now in spite of this, GIULIANI IS THE FRONT RUNNER IN THE RACE FOR REPUBLICAN NOMINATION In a nationwide poll conducted by CBS News Poll amongst white evangelicals, Giuliani was in a statistical dead heat for first place with Fred Thompson. His 26% polled amongst evangelicals nearly matches his showing amonst all Republicans.

Pause folks, and take a deep breathe because you need to follow this post through to the end. Its that important.

Now, the High Priests will have you believe the reason for Giuliani's popularity is that the voters do not know about his views on abortion, gun control and gay rights.

THEY ARE DEAD WRONG.

A CBS News poll this month comes up with the same conclusions as the poll conducted amongst evangelicals by Sunday's new York Times magazine. The evangelicals are most interested today in Health care, followed by a closure to Iraq.

ABORTION AND SAME SEX MARRIAGE LANDED AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST. FIGHTING POVERTY OUTPOLLED ABORTION AS A PERSONAL PRIORITY AMONGST EVANGELICALS BY A 3-TO-2 MARGIN.

Conclusion: There is a marked disprecency between the crazy fringe lead by the High Priests and the common hard working christian citizenry.

As Frank Rich concludes: The political clout ritualistically ascribed to James Dobson of "Focus on the Family" and Gary Bauer of "American Values" an dtheir ilk is a sham.

I may not like Giuliani but he sure is hammering another nail into the coffin of the religious right.
0 Replies
 
Tulip cv
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2007 12:36 pm
@Adam Bing,
Quote:
the universe is so complex that some higher being must have designed every detail.
adam

Yep, it's the big guy, the Buddah, the Divine One, God...and all the contraversy, all the human need for energy when not connected to the divine energy, all of the strife and mis-interpretation and wars, and joy, and love and hatred...all a perfect marvelous way to make humans aware of their divine potential that comes about by the connection of our spiritualness with God.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2007 05:17 pm
@Tulip cv,
Tulip;43553 wrote:
adam

Yep, it's the big guy, the Buddah, the Divine One, God...and all the contraversy, all the human need for energy when not connected to the divine energy, all of the strife and mis-interpretation and wars, and joy, and love and hatred...all a perfect marvelous way to make humans aware of their divine potential that comes about by the connection of our spiritualness with God.



Bear in mind that man was created in gods image.

There are approx a Billion Billion Stars in the Universe, now if we say that each of those stars has 2 planets orbiting it can you begin to imagine how ludicrous it seems that a being created the universe and he happend to look like we do.

Now evolution is a theory it is a theory that is based upon Research by a multitude of scientist that spend their lives investigating it. If one piece of evidence ensures the theory cannot work, the theory will be discarded. As yet no evidence has been dicovered that disproves evolution.

I have a Question.

What would you put the chance of Evolution starting from nothing?

100-1
1,000-1
100,000-1
Million-1
Billion-1
100 Billion-1
Or another number of your chosing.
0 Replies
 
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 12:16 am
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;43514 wrote:


No.1. All of the dinosaurs were not killed by the flood, that should be pretty obvious because the Book of Job describes one and that was after the flood.
Which would mean dinosaurs would of been on the Ark as well.

No. 2. I'm still waiting for the study on soft tissue. You know the one that now states that blood cells and soft tissue can last 70 million years after they told us they could not last more than 10,000 years. WHO DID THIS RESEARCH?

No 3. If science took a little time to objectivly look at the other evidence that is out there, they would know that all over the world there is evidence which shows very plainly that dinosaurs have been around just in the last few thousand years. Consider the American Indian Petroglyphs, there is one in the site below that shows a stegosaur. The fact is this kind of evidence is all over the place, yet science turns a blind eye to it because it does not fit into to their theory of evolution.

Dynoglyphs
0 Replies
 
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 12:36 am
@Numpty,
Numpty;43527 wrote:
Well I would estimate that 100 years ago that figure would have been a lot lower probably somewhere between 1-5%. So it is you that should not 'get your hopes up to high.. It shows to me slow and steady progress of the American public being de-programmed from the Evangelical Nazi's that seem to want to stop any form of progression in favour of a backward thinking vicous faith, that if taken literaly means if they ever got to power, witch hunts, the burning and the murdering of people for different views on life would be wide spread.

51% you say, well that is encouraging. Again i would say 100 years ago this would have been alot higher, maybe 90-99%. You see what open debate and the abilty of people to make up their mind without opression can do. Your Country has afforded you great liberty. Would you throw it all away for a religous state, like those of the middle east? Because if the majority were like you then you would surely lose it.

Although it may not seem like it, your country is making very slow and steady progress towards 'The End of Faith'. Thank you for helping me to understand this, it must have been hard for you to publish those facts.


Well it's not hard to publish those fact at all, because the Bible tells us just before the end of time there will be a great falling away from the faith, so this is something I expect to see.

Well with your enlightened mind Numpty, what do you do when you discover that American Indians were drawing pictures of dinosaurs in the form of Petroglyphs? I mean really, how does this fit into your theory of evolution. And it's not the Evangelicals that are trying to hide this information. It's your own enlightened scientist. This is the kind of thing they donot want kids to see, because these petroglyphs from centuries before mock Evolution. How do you think these Indians knew what a dinosaur look like? And it is not just Indian Petroglyphs where such images are showing up.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 03:24 am
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;43626 wrote:
Well it's not hard to publish those fact at all, because the Bible tells us just before the end of time there will be a great falling away from the faith, so this is something I expect to see.

Well with your enlightened mind Numpty, what do you do when you discover that American Indians were drawing pictures of dinosaurs in the form of Petroglyphs? I mean really, how does this fit into your theory of evolution. And it's not the Evangelicals that are trying to hide this information. It's your own enlightened scientist. This is the kind of thing they donot want kids to see, because these petroglyphs from centuries before mock Evolution. How do you think these Indians knew what a dinosaur look like? And it is not just Indian Petroglyphs where such images are showing up.


Brilliant, can you show me the pictures? I would really like to see them. It certainly is an interesting prospect.
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 03:58 am
@Numpty,
Numpty;43630 wrote:
Brilliant, can you show me the pictures? I would really like to see them. It certainly is an interesting prospect.


Dynoglyphs
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 06:41 am
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;43633 wrote:


Most of those are confirmed hoaxes. However given that these were dated around 400 or so A.D., wouldn't it make sense that images depicting other gods, dragons, griffins, and other such "mythical" creatures that were dated WAY earlier than these petroglyphs, show what man actually saw? By your logic, these creatures had to exist.

So, what will it be?
Tulip cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 10:27 am
@Adam Bing,
The logic of saying that the universe is so complex and so enormous that it couldn't be possibly created by the Divine is very interesting. In fact, it is really humorous, since mankind knows so little about the universe, and has scoffed and ridiculed all the theories that the visionaries such as Socrates {who was killed for his ideas}, Plato, Newton, Henry Ford and the Wright Brothers. Yet they knew.
In fact the only explaination for our universe is a divine energy source that is not a "being" as Numpty describes God., it is indescribable by our human words. Alot of our world is just a mass of words that define a perception that someone else has created. Take for example, freedom, it is defined by our society is a lack of cares and worries, such as in freedom55, and of course there are an endless amount of definaitions. What is the true definaition? There is none, because it is all based on personal perception, and so the truth as defined by one person is not the truth defined by another.
So God is undefinable, yet the Divine Highest Power does exist, and there is not one shred of scientific evidence to even come close to suggesting otherwise. In fact, there is a lot, historically evidenced that there is a white light experience happening in many near-death experiences, there is evidence of miracles, there is evidence when you begin to seek to connect with God. In the mere seeking, you will meditate and be connected to an energy source that is clearly of a higher nature and abundant and beautiful.
It is the opposite of negativity and will clear any mis-perceptions you have of the universal power, and allow you to reach a state of joy that doesn't rely on outside factors. The underlying pain of those who question God is based on the lack of connection. So if you want to try this method of connection, l would be happy to share how l do it.
The connection of the divine energy source allows you to release all the energy-seeking behaviours such as addictions, self-pity, bad health, complaining, egocentricities, negativity, arguing, bullying etc.etc. because you don't need the pay off, you have enough energy from an abundant source.
So back to the topic, evolution in the bible, God is a spiritualness that is indefinable in our words, is not a be-ing in our defination, and is not a religion. The energy of the divinity is beyond time of end, it is not the beginning or the end, these are perceptions, none of these exist within reality. It is not possible for a creator to come in to create a world, and then on judgement day appears ...the great day of judgement is a creation of a human perception. By every choice, we have a continuous divine justice happening every day with every decision, it defines were you are, and today is the result of what you chose yesterday, so the justice of God is absolute. In otherwords there is no time, no judgement day, no day of creation, and so we have nothing to fear, we just need to clear our minds of senseless and negative thoughts and connect with the Divine source.
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 12:21 pm
@Tulip cv,
Tulip;43641 wrote:
In fact, there is a lot, historically evidenced that there is a white light experience happening in many near-death experiences, there is evidence of miracles, there is evidence when you begin to seek to connect with God.


Dude, I can get you that at 50 bucks a bag.

Where's the SCIENTIFIC evidence to prove a divine power? We do know very little about the universe... so little in fact that science cannot prove it either way. So just because something can't be explained at this point in time does not automatically mean it goes into the "God Exists" file.

The stars and planets are good examples of this.
0 Replies
 
Tulip cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 02:06 pm
@Adam Bing,
And stars and planets are also a creation of God...
0 Replies
 
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 05:36 pm
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;43636 wrote:
Most of those are confirmed hoaxes. However given that these were dated around 400 or so A.D., wouldn't it make sense that images depicting other gods, dragons, griffins, and other such "mythical" creatures that were dated WAY earlier than these petroglyphs, show what man actually saw? By your logic, these creatures had to exist.

So, what will it be?


Would you please show us the evidence that states these are hoaxes.
And most of the hoaxes I am aware of, come from the Evolution camp, not the other way around. I cannot speak for all petroglyphs, but when you have petroglyphs that match pictures we have of dinosaurs today, well then, they should be given a much closer look. Also there are pictures like this all over the world. And they stand as an embarrassment to the believers in evolution.
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 07:31 pm
@Adam Bing,
Fundamentalism is dangerously misguided. If you don't think so, consider Ahmadinejad's belief in the appearance of the 12th Imam for the purpose of saving the world from self-destruction. Part of the legend entails the use of Jesus to persuade skeptics to follow the 12th Imam. I know.....I know -- you have the Bible, which says the Shia Muslims are wrong. Well, they have the Koran and some other sources that say your Bible is wrong. GIMME A BREAK. God is more than a book, or set of books.
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 08:58 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;43713 wrote:
Fundamentalism is dangerously misguided. If you don't think so, consider Ahmadinejad's belief in the appearance of the 12th Imam for the purpose of saving the world from self-destruction. Part of the legend entails the use of Jesus to persuade skeptics to follow the 12th Imam. I know.....I know -- you have the Bible, which says the Shia Muslims are wrong. Well, they have the Koran and some other sources that say your Bible is wrong. GIMME A BREAK. God is more than a book, or set of books.


Pinochet, you never cease to surprise me. I am in awe of your tongue-in-cheek wisdom.
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 10:05 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;43713 wrote:
Fundamentalism is dangerously misguided. If you don't think so, consider Ahmadinejad's belief in the appearance of the 12th Imam for the purpose of saving the world from self-destruction. Part of the legend entails the use of Jesus to persuade skeptics to follow the 12th Imam. I know.....I know -- you have the Bible, which says the Shia Muslims are wrong. Well, they have the Koran and some other sources that say your Bible is wrong. GIMME A BREAK. God is more than a book, or set of books.


God has His Book, and the Devil has his. I have no doubt the Devil will help to lead the Islamics into battle. Yet God tells us in Ezekiel when the Islamic nations attack Israel, He will destroy five sixths of their army. It was Gods Book the Bible that tells us that at the end of time God would allow the Jews to return to Israel, they would retake Jerusalem, and they would anger the nations. God has allow the Jews to return and is useing them as bait. The Islamics nations are going to see who the real God is on the day they attack Israel. They will see this, and so will the Jews. The event that is coming will be on a scale that is greater than the splitting of the Red Sea. God has a flair for the dramatic. The prophecies of the Bible are true, and there is nothing anyone of us could do to stop what is surly going to happen.
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 10:34 pm
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;43748 wrote:
God has His Book, and the Devil has his. I have no doubt the Devil will help to lead the Islamics into battle. Yet God tells us in Ezekiel when the Islamic nations attack Israel, He will destroy five sixths of their army. It was Gods Book the Bible that tells us that at the end of time God would allow the Jews to return to Israel, they would retake Jerusalem, and they would anger the nations. God has allow the Jews to return and is useing them as bait. The Islamics nations are going to see who the real God is on the day they attack Israel. They will see this, and so will the Jews. The event that is coming will be on a scale that is greater than the splitting of the Red Sea. God has a flair for the dramatic. The prophecies of the Bible are true, and there is nothing anyone of us could do to stop what is surly going to happen.


Fundementalism means taking a religious book literally. Which is what Mr.Campbell is doing here (see above quote) and what his counterparts in the Islamic world do. Ahmedinijad is a prime example.

Such a literal interpretation would be quaint if it was not downright dangerous given how this reckless belief in these prophecies by nuts on both sides make some of the more violent -end of days - ones almost self fulfilling. The support for the creation of Israel in '49 for example, came from Christians who where ardent believers in precisely the same nonsense that Mr.Campbell talks about here.

We innocent bystanders need to be cognisant of this crap. Why crap? Take Hitler for example. Just because his beliefs were violently forced through for a while due to his taking proactive steps to "make them happen" didn;t mean they were correct, true or fated.

There is a message in the above para for all those good people helping the prophecies to come to pass by encouraging Israel's misdemenours.

Grow up and be responsible citizens of this remarkable planet. There is no biblical end-of-days on the agenda. Only a possible man-made one if we do not wake up, embrace education and eschew blind belief.
 

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