Church of England to Apologise to Darwin

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;60791 wrote:

This has been a known fraud for years but yet it doesn't prevent creationist from circulating untruths to support their claims!

Paluxy River: it has been widely claimed by creationists that fossil human footprints have been found alongside dinosaur footprints at the Paluxy River near Glen Rose, Texas. Parker (1982), for example, claimed that they "are much more obviously human" than the Laetoli footprints. Scientists showed that many of them were indistinct or infilled dinosaur prints. Some other supposed footprints are either erosional features or, in a few cases (such as the Burdick footprint shown at right (Whitcomb and Morris 1961)), carvings. In 1984 the dinosaurian origin of many of the "better" prints was dramatically confirmed when Glen Kuban and Ron Hastings found color markings which preserved the outline of three-toed dinosaur feet. Although there have been some insinuations that these markings could be artificial stains, core samples show that they were caused by an infilling of secondary sediment into the prints. This evidence has caused most creationists to abandon the Paluxy footprints, although claims about them continue to circulate. For further details read Kuban (1996), or Strahler (1987). (See also Kuban's web site on the Paluxy River controversy"

First of all, we are not talking about Paluxy River in Texas, we are talking about a discovery in Nevada. And second, this did not come from creationist website, so I wish you would come up to speed on this one. And this imprint was not branded as a fraud, science thought it was just a freak of nature. Yet it was obvious that the imprint of a woven thread could not of been made by a freak of nature, and this was confirmed after closer inspection.

1 Reply

@Campbell34,

Nevada Shoe Print?

Thereya go. Looks like a whole lot of assumption to me.

2 Replies

@Sabz5150,

Sabz5150;60853 wrote:

Nevada Shoe Print?

Thereya go. Looks like a whole lot of assumption to me.

That looks nothing like a foot print.

Is that it, is that all you have to bring down evolution?

Ok so lets try something different. So we, Sabz, FF and I all believe in Evolution and not creation, we have also demonstrated on occasion after occasion why we believe this and how the science works in order to show why we belive evolution and not creation.

So I have a challange for you, one i hope you are up for. Instead of trying to disprove evolution, which you have failed to do so far. Are you able to demonstrate to the three of us the science behind creation and how it is measured and tested independantly by respected geologists, biologists, geneticists and any other scientists that can help prove what it is you believe.

The Challange is set, if you are willing to accept it?

1 Reply

@Sabz5150,

Sabz5150;60853 wrote:

Nevada Shoe Print?

Thereya go. Looks like a whole lot of assumption to me.

Didn't ya know? Adam and eve wore these shoes:

http://www.davidsformalwear.com/images/Shoes/PalermoPatentLeatherShoes1.jpg

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@Numpty,

Numpty;60854 wrote:

That looks nothing like a foot print.

Is that it, is that all you have to bring down evolution?

Ok so lets try something different. So we, Sabz, FF and I all believe in Evolution and not creation, we have also demonstrated on occasion after occasion why we believe this and how the science works in order to show why we belive evolution and not creation.

So I have a challange for you, one i hope you are up for. Instead of trying to disprove evolution, which you have failed to do so far. Are you able to demonstrate to the three of us the science behind creation and how it is measured and tested independantly by respected geologists, biologists, geneticists and any other scientists that can help prove what it is you believe.

The Challange is set, if you are willing to accept it?

Why do you think it was a foot print? Did you not read the post? It was stated to be a shoe print, that is why it speaks of the thread prints.

No I could not possibly explain how creation actually happened, and I will not pretend I do. I only know the Bible speaks the truth and there is evidence out there that confirms much of that truth, so I have no reason to doubt it.
Evolution requires that the earth must be very old in order for Evolution to of occured. Yet we have a great deal of evidence to suggest that the earth is not nearly as old as some would suggest. However, the courts have blocked that evidence from being taught in the classroom. And that is the only way Evolution can be taught and believed, because all other evidenced taught in the classroom is considered illegal. So much for free thought.
Believers in Evolution will tell us that Dinosaurs died out 75 million years ago, yet all around the world we have ancient art that depicts early man and dinosaurs together. This art is ignored by the believers in Evolution, yet there is so much of it, one wonders how they can turn a blind eye to it.
Just consider the figurines of El Tore Mountain which were found in the 1940s

omniology.com

2 Replies

@Campbell34,

Campbell34;60868 wrote:

Why do you think it was a foot print? Did you not read the post? It was stated to be a shoe print, that is why it speaks of the thread prints.

No I could not possibly explain how creation actually happened, and I will not pretend I do. I only know the Bible speaks the truth and there is evidence out there that confirms much of that truth, so I have no reason to doubt it.
Evolution requires that the earth must be very old in order for Evolution to of occured. Yet we have a great deal of evidence to suggest that the earth is not nearly as old as some would suggest. However, the courts have blocked that evidence from being taught in the classroom. And that is the only way Evolution can be taught and believed, because all other evidenced taught in the classroom is considered illegal. So much for free thought.
Believers in Evolution will tell us that Dinosaurs died out 75 million years ago, yet all around the world we have ancient art that depicts early man and dinosaurs together. This art is ignored by the believers in Evolution, yet there is so much of it, one wonders how they can turn a blind eye to it.
Just consider the figurines of El Tore Mountain which were found in the 1940s

omniology.com

The process of evolution requires no such thing. All the process requires is a population with the ability to reproduce and inherit random modifiers through said reproduction, and selective pressure from the environment. That's all.

The "evidence" you speak of are things like shoe prints and figurines, all of which are questionable in themselves. All the "evidence" you put forth are exceptions, not rules. The evidence put forth by science comes in the form of genetic information, fossil records, observed changes, things that have been validated time and time again. The fact that you have a fused second is solid evidence for common descent via biological evolution. This was predicted by evolutionary theory (predictive power is required for something to be a scientific theory) and was validated. Speciation (one species giving rise to another) was also directly observed and validated. The evolution of tetrapods is now common knowledge.

We have the evidence, we have the data, we have the facts. That's why it's taught.

0 Replies

@Campbell34,

Campbell34;60868 wrote:

Why do you think it was a foot print? Did you not read the post? It was stated to be a shoe print, that is why it speaks of the thread prints.

No I could not possibly explain how creation actually happened, and I will not pretend I do. I only know the Bible speaks the truth and there is evidence out there that confirms much of that truth, so I have no reason to doubt it.
Evolution requires that the earth must be very old in order for Evolution to of occured. Yet we have a great deal of evidence to suggest that the earth is not nearly as old as some would suggest. However, the courts have blocked that evidence from being taught in the classroom. And that is the only way Evolution can be taught and believed, because all other evidenced taught in the classroom is considered illegal. So much for free thought.
Believers in Evolution will tell us that Dinosaurs died out 75 million years ago, yet all around the world we have ancient art that depicts early man and dinosaurs together. This art is ignored by the believers in Evolution, yet there is so much of it, one wonders how they can turn a blind eye to it.
Just consider the figurines of El Tore Mountain which were found in the 1940s

omniology.com

You are clutching at straws here, it doesn't look at all like a shoe print either.

You don't need to know how creation happend, but what should be readily available through tested science is that that it did happen and this is how it can be measured.

Fundamentally there should be an absolute abundence of evidence available that supports what you think, there should text book after text book of material pertaining to this idea. So where is it?

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@Numpty,

the ridiculousness of such a claim, the type of soled shoe required for such a print wasn't even invented when this shoe-print was supposed to be from.

1 Reply

@Fatal Freedoms,

A discussion of Evolution proves Creationism by the fact that we discuss it.

And, I'm yet to see one evidence that a man become a man from another specie. It's all one huge missing link, as big as the explosion that created the earth.

1 Reply

@marcus cv,

marcus;60983 wrote:

A discussion of Evolution proves Creationism by the fact that we discuss it.

And, I'm yet to see one evidence that a man become a man from another specie. It's all one huge missing link, as big as the explosion that created the earth.

Then you have not looked at the evidence,.or understood it.

Creation and evolution are not at war. Understand this, we do not need to know where life came from to understand how evolution works. Evolution is a fact and has been tested and tested and measured and retested and every single time has been proven correct, the only debate is how the mechanisms of evolution work. Evolution is undisputable scientific fact.

Show me your creation science please.

1 Reply

@Numpty,

The question of evolution is the existence of the material. There is not issues that evolution exists. It's given, if I pull my ear 5 times a day for the next 5 years it will grow bigger. But where is the initial matter came from. I believe there is Creator who created everything. Things and humans can vary based on the external factors, but the very first man was created. Isn't the biggest dispute of evolution that man wasn't created but evolved?

2 Replies

@marcus cv,

marcus;60989 wrote:

The question of evolution is the existence of the material. There is not issues that evolution exists. It's given, if I pull my ear 5 times a day for the next 5 years it will grow bigger. But where is the initial matter came from. I believe there is Creator who created everything. Things and humans can vary based on the external factors, but the very first man was created. Isn't the biggest dispute of evolution that man wasn't created but evolved?

man evolved from a common ancestor which we share with the Chimpanze, it has been poved through DNA, genetics and the fossil record. What more proof do you want? we are a 98% match I believe (Sabz back me up?).

Try this we know a horse and a Zebra can mate and produce offspring,...do the math, you know whats coming next.

1 Reply

@Numpty,

The use of percentages obscures the magnitude of the differences. For example, 1.23% of the differences are single base pair substitutions. This doesn?t sound like much until you realize that it represents ~35 million mutations! But that is only the beginning, because there are ~40?45 million bases present in humans and missing from chimps, as well as about the same number present in chimps that is absent from man. These extra DNA nucleotides are called ?insertions? or ?deletions? because they are thought to have been added in or lost from the sequence. This puts the total number of DNA differences at about 125 million. However, since the insertions can be more than one nucleotide long, there are about 40 million separate mutation events that would separate the two species.

Comparison between a base substitution and an insertion/deletion. Two DNA sequences can be compared. If there is a difference in the nucleotides (an A instead of a G) this is a substitution. In contrast, if there is a nucleotide base which is missing it is considered an insertion/deletion. It is assumed that a nucleotide has been inserted into one of the sequences or one has been deleted from the other. It is often too difficult to determine whether the difference is a result of an insertion or a deletion and thus it is called an ?indel.? Indels can be of virtually any length.

To put this number into perspective, a typical page of text might have 4,000 letters and spaces. It would take 10,000 such full pages of text to equal 40 million letters! So the differences between humans and chimpanzees include ~35 million DNA bases that are different, ~45 million in the human that are absent from the chimp and ~45 million in the chimp that are absent from the human.

Creationists believe that God made Adam directly from the dust of the earth just as the Bible says. Therefore, man and the apes have never had an ancestor in common. However, assuming they did for the sake of analyzing the argument, then 40 million separate mutation events would have had to take place and become fixed in the population in only ~300,000 generations?a problem referred to as ?Haldane?s dilemma.? This problem is exacerbated because the authors acknowledge that most evolutionary change is due to neutral or random genetic drift. That refers to change in which natural selection is not operating. Without a selective advantage, it is difficult to explain how this huge number of mutations could become fixed in the population. Instead, many of these may actually be intrinsic sequence differences from the beginning of creation.

Some scientists are surprised at the anatomical, physical and behavioral differences between man and chimpanzee when they see so much apparent genetic similarity. With a philosophy that excludes a Creator God, they are forced to accept similarity as evidence of common ancestry. However, similarity can also be the result of a common Designer.

1 Reply

@marcus cv,

All very interesting, but you again fail to offer any evidence to supoort the claim we are made from dust. Now there must be evidence of this happening for us to know about it.

Check some of these out.

Ancient Animal Could Be Human-Ape Ancestor | LiveScience

Evolution: Library: The Common Genetic Code

DNA, Ancestry and Human Migration

What is genetic anthropology?
Genetic anthropology is an emerging discipline that combines DNA and physical evidence to reveal the history of ancient human migration. It seeks to answer the questions, "Where did we come from, and how did we get here?"

DNA studies indicate that all modern humans share a common female ancestor who lived in Africa about 140,000 years ago, and all men share a common male ancestor who lived in Africa about 60,000 years ago. These were not the only humans who lived in these eras, and the human genome still contains many genetic traits of their contemporaries. Humanity's most recent common ancestors are identifiable because their lineages have survived by chance in the special pieces of DNA that are passed down the gender lines nearly unaltered from one generation to the next. These ancestors are part of a growing body of fossil and DNA evidence indicating that modern humans arose in sub-Saharan Africa and began migrating, starting about 65,000 years ago, to populate first southern Asia, China, Java, and later Europe. Each of us living today has DNA that contains the story of our ancient ancestors' journeys.

Not sure how much evidence you want, but i can keep looking if you want?

1 Reply

@Numpty,

now they are discussing not 2 % difference but 4 or even 10%
Do you know if 5% of the DNA is different, this amounts to 150,000,000 DNA base pairs that are different between them!
In my point of view the percentage is not a valid argument.

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@marcus cv,

marcus;60989 wrote:

The question of evolution is the existence of the material. There is not issues that evolution exists. It's given, if I pull my ear 5 times a day for the next 5 years it will grow bigger. But where is the initial matter came from. I believe there is Creator who created everything. Things and humans can vary based on the external factors, but the very first man was created. Isn't the biggest dispute of evolution that man wasn't created but evolved?

Evolution explains how life diversified not how life began. Regardless of how life may of began evolution is still true.

If you want to talk about the theory that explains how life began, then we should be talking about abiogenesis not evolution.

1 Reply

@Fatal Freedoms,

I'm fine,

Just wanted to help my friend Numpty to find the truth Wink

1 Reply

@marcus cv,

marcus;60998 wrote:

I'm fine,

Just wanted to help my friend Numpty to find the truth

LMAO,...I already know the truth,....I have made my peace with that. :headbang:

1 Reply

@Numpty,

I don't think any of us can honestly say we know the truth......not 'till we die that is.

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@Numpty,

Numpty;60905 wrote:

You are clutching at straws here, it doesn't look at all like a shoe print either.

You don't need to know how creation happend, but what should be readily available through tested science is that that it did happen and this is how it can be measured.

Fundamentally there should be an absolute abundence of evidence available that supports what you think, there should text book after text book of material pertaining to this idea. So where is it?

There is an abudance of evidence, and that evidence is rejected by believers in Evolution, and that evidenced is barred from being presented in classrooms today because the courts have made that an illegal activity. Why print text books when they cannot be used? The American public would like to see this evidence taught in the schools, yet the courts have successsully blocked that from happening. I am not clutching at straws, I am presenting evidence that can be considered, but todays vodo science has dismissed it without any real attempt to consider it. There are places all over the earth that show man and his connection with dinosaurs, yet that evidence is ignored because it does not fit in, with their politically correct theory.

Consider the 50,000 Inca Ceremonial Burial stones. Some of them depict dinosaurs. Or some of the cave drawings that depict dinosaurs. Of course, all such discoveries believers in Evolution will claim are fakes. And they do this, even when the evidence suggest otherwise.

Paintings and carvings of dinosaurs made by the men who lived with them. Dinosaur carvings and statues from Acambaro, Gto Mexico. Mystery in Acambaro Did Dinosaurs survive until recently?

You also might consider the stegosaurus that is found on this ancient building here on youtube. The fact is these kinds of finds are all over the world and are being ignored by todays science.

YouTube - man and dinosaurs alive together!

2 Replies

Church of England to Apologise to Darwin

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