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Church of England to Apologise to Darwin

 
 
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2008 02:28 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;62345 wrote:
You realize that plate tectonics takes millions of years, right? 40 days isn't sufficient time for plate tectonics to create taller mountains 'round the world.

This is a laughable explanation at best.


Well before you laugh to hard, I might point out that one of the first persons to considered Plate Tectonics was creationist Antonio Snider, and he drew his conclusion on Plate Tectonics after reading Genesis 1:9-10. In those verses the Bible states that God gathered together the seas into one place. It was from that verse he concluded that the land must of all been together in one place as well. And when he saw how the continents all fit together he drew the conclusion they would of had to been able to move horizontally from each other. He also believed that this event happened during the flood. His ideas were dismissed by most scientist of the day, becasue they believed that the continents were so anchored to the land mass, that the ideal of them moving horizontally was laughable. It was not until the twentieth century that the theory of continental drift was understood by the scientific community. Hear again, the Bible was on the cutting edge of discovery, and the science of the day was wrong.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2008 03:00 am
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;62429 wrote:
Well before you laugh to hard, I might point out that one of the first persons to considered Plate Tectonics was creationist Antonio Snider, and he drew his conclusion on Plate Tectonics after reading Genesis 1:9-10. In those verses the Bible states that God gathered together the seas into one place. It was from that verse he concluded that the land must of all been together in one place as well. And when he saw how the continents all fit together he drew the conclusion they would of had to been able to move horizontally from each other. He also believed that this event happened during the flood. His ideas were dismissed by most scientist of the day, becasue they believed that the continents were so anchored to the land mass, that the ideal of them moving horizontally was laughable. It was not until the twentieth century that the theory of continental drift was understood by the scientific community. Hear again, the Bible was on the cutting edge of discovery, and the science of the day was wrong.


Again plate tectonics takes millions of years.

furthermore many of the scientists who opposed his explanation were also creationists. As were most scientists when they rejected the idea of heliocentrism, who often quoted the bible to support their idea that the sun went around the earth and not the other way around.
Musky Hunter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2008 07:14 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;62430 wrote:


1) Again plate tectonics takes millions of years.

2)furthermore many of the scientists who opposed his explanation were also creationists. As were most scientists when they rejected the idea of heliocentrism, who often quoted the bible to support their idea that the sun went around the earth and not the other way around.


1) If left to their own devices.

2) I am not sure of your point. People have misunderstood and misread the bible at times, just like scientists have done the same in what they have studied and read.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 10:14 am
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62472 wrote:
If left to their own devices.



If it is not by it's own devices then it's not plate tectonics, god reaching a giant invisible hand to push the land together isn't plate tectonics but it is quite silly.

If god was real, why would he create the laws of nature only to break them with some "hocus pocus" miracle? Doesn't seem more likely that an intelligent god would create the laws of nature that would do the work for him, without him having to intervene all the time? This is how many theistic scientists feel and have felt within the last 200 years.


This is what i don't understand about religious people, why would they rather that god had to intervene all the time with magic to fix things that could've been corrected automatically by nature. The mere idea that he would've needed to correct anything means he clearly wasn't omnipotent.
Musky Hunter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 06:02 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;62492 wrote:
If it is not by it's own devices then it's not plate tectonics, god reaching a giant invisible hand to push the land together isn't plate tectonics but it is quite silly.

If god was real, why would he create the laws of nature only to break them with some "hocus pocus" miracle? Doesn't seem more likely that an intelligent god would create the laws of nature that would do the work for him, without him having to intervene all the time? This is how many theistic scientists feel and have felt within the last 200 years.


This is what i don't understand about religious people, why would they rather that god had to intervene all the time with magic to fix things that could've been corrected automatically by nature. The mere idea that he would've needed to correct anything means he clearly wasn't omnipotent.


I believe that God does work within the laws of nature. I, however, do not believe that we know all of the laws of nature yet nor am I sure that we can.
Finally, just like in a household, the laws that one person must follow are not necessarily the same laws that another must follow.

An example of this might be parents telling smaller children that they must be home before dark and in bed by 9pm on a school night while teenagers must be in by 9 pm and in bed by 11pm and smoking or drinking will get you grounded. The rules for the 23 year old living back at home include the rules that there is no smoking in the house and if you come home drunk and act obnoxious that you will need to find another place to live. In the meantime, you will be looking for a job and you owe us $200 a month or so much work around the house to live here.

The parents, on the other hand, do not have such tightly set behavioral or time constraints and can do as they please around the house because it is their house. They will, however, not smoke or get toasted in front of the kids, not because there is a set rule against it, but because they are trying to set a good example for their children.

In the above scenario, the rules are different per individual and group of individuals but the rules of the household are consistent. So it is with the laws of nature as they relate to God and to humans.
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 09:11 pm
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62494 wrote:
I believe that God does work within the laws of nature. I, however, do not believe that we know all of the laws of nature yet nor am I sure that we can.
Finally, just like in a household, the laws that one person must follow are not necessarily the same laws that another must follow.

An example of this might be parents telling smaller children that they must be home before dark and in bed by 9pm on a school night while teenagers must be in by 9 pm and in bed by 11pm and smoking or drinking will get you grounded. The rules for the 23 year old living back at home include the rules that there is no smoking in the house and if you come home drunk and act obnoxious that you will need to find another place to live. In the meantime, you will be looking for a job and you owe us $200 a month or so much work around the house to live here.

The parents, on the other hand, do not have such tightly set behavioral or time constraints and can do as they please around the house because it is their house. They will, however, not smoke or get toasted in front of the kids, not because there is a set rule against it, but because they are trying to set a good example for their children.

In the above scenario, the rules are different per individual and group of individuals but the rules of the household are consistent. So it is with the laws of nature as they relate to God and to humans.


Provide evidence of something, anything, breaking the laws of nature and physics.
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