1
   

Atheism & Agnostic Beliefs On The Rise In U.s.

 
 
STNGfan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 01:33 pm
@DesertDave,
I agree that athiesm and agnostics is on the rise because people are sheding the need for superstition and educating themselves in science. I think the christians are very scared and very defensive about this some even claim there is a "war on Christianity"
I mean during christmas we try to respect all religions such as hinduism, judism,wiccan and humanism and say "happy holidays" and christians completely freak out about this. I remember saying happy holidays to a woman and she said in a very snide way " I will not respond to anything other than Merry Christmas!"
Obviously some christians cannot share the holidays with other religions. "rolls eyes"
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 02:54 pm
@STNGfan,
STNGfan;20544 wrote:
I agree that athiesm and agnostics is on the rise because people are sheding the need for superstition and educating themselves in science. I think the christians are very scared and very defensive about this some even claim there is a "war on Christianity"
I mean during christmas we try to respect all religions such as hinduism, judism,wiccan and humanism and say "happy holidays" and christians completely freak out about this. I remember saying happy holidays to a woman and she said in a very snide way " I will not respond to anything other than Merry Christmas!"
Obviously some christians cannot share the holidays with other religions. "rolls eyes"


Christmas is a celebration of the birth of the Christ Child. Name another holiday with a specific day in the same time-frame.
STNGfan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 03:02 pm
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;20562 wrote:
Christmas is a celebration of the birth of the Christ Child. Name another holiday with a specific day in the same time-frame.


Yule a pagan celebration of the winter season.
Yule is a winter festival celebrated in Northern Europe since ancient times. In pre-Christian times, Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian and Germanic pagans celebrated Yule in late December or early January on a date determined by a lunar calendar.[1] With the coming of Christianity and the adoption of the Julian calendar, Yule was placed on December 25 in order to correspond with Christmas.[2] The terms "Yule" (Joul) and "Christmas" are often used interchangeably[citation needed], especially in Christmas carols. In Denmark, Norway and Sweden the term jul is the most common way to refer to the celebration, including among Christians. In Finland, Christmas is called joulu, in Estonia j?ulud, and in Iceland and the Faroe Islands j?l.

Yule is an important festival for Wiccans, Neopagans and various secular groups who observe the holiday at the winter solstice (December 21 or 22 in the Northern Hemisphere, June 20 or 21 in the Southern Hemisphere). Yulefest, for example, is held by many Australians on a weekend in late June.

Etymology
Of the contested origin of J?l, one popular connection is to Old Norse hj?l, wheel, to identify the moment when the wheel of the year is at its low point, ready to rise again (compare karachun). This theory however seems based more on similarities between the words "jul" and "hjul" (with a mute h) in modern Scandinavian languages, rather than any connection based on older cognates or historical sources. Linguists suggest that J?l has been inherited by Germanic languages from a pre-Indo-European substrate language and either borrowed into Old English from Old Norse or directly inherited from Proto-Germanic.[citation needed] Considering the original Old English form Geohhol, another suggestion connects the word to Latin jocus, however this is uncertain.[3]

In the Scandinavian Germanic languages, the term Jul covers both Yule and Christmas, and is also occasionally used to denote other holidays in December, e.g., "j?disk jul" or "judisk jul" (tr. "Jewish Yule") for Hanukkah. The word "jul" has also been borrowed into the neighboring Finnic languages, most notably to Finnish and Estonian (where it has been modified to "joulu" and "j?ul", respectively, and denotes Christmas in modern usage), although the Finnic languages have a linguistic origin different from Germanic languages. In Old English, ge?la[2] originally referred to the month of December; although the ancient Anglo-Saxon calendar had two "tides" of 60 day periods: "Litha Tide", roughly equivalent to modern June and July, and "Giuli Tide", being essentially December and January (the remaining months of the year were lunar, 29 day periods--the New Year began with the second half of that tide, also known as "Wulfmonath"). There was also a period of time, twelve days, intercalary between the two halves--or "monaths"--the which becoming the traditional Twelve Days of Christmas. The definition later narrowed to mean Christmas day only, with the returning of the Latin-based calendar--via the Normans--over time in Christian Norman and Anglo-Saxon England.


[edit] Traditional Yule
Yule celebrations at the winter solstice predate the conversion to Christianity. It was, in pre-conversion times, the name of a feast celebrated by sacrifice on mid-winter night of January 12th according to the Norwegian historian Olav B?. [3] Though there are numerous references to Yule in the Icelandic sagas, there are few accounts of how Yule was actually celebrated, beyond the fact that it was a time for feasting. According to Adam of Bremen, the Swedish kings sacrificed male slaves every ninth year during the Yule sacrifices at the Temple at Uppsala. 'Yule-Joy', with dancing, continued through the Middle Ages in Iceland, but was frowned upon when the Reformation arrived. The custom of ritually slaughtering a boar on Yule survives in the modern tradition of the Christmas ham and the Boar's Head Carol.

"On Yule Eve, the best boar in the herd was brought into the hall where the assembled company laid their hands upon the animal and made their unbreakable oaths. Heard by the boar, these oaths were thought to go straight to the ears of Freyr himself.Once the oaths had been sworn, the boar was sacrificed in the name of Freyr and the feast of boar flesh began. The most commonly recognised remnants of the sacred boar traditions once common at Yule has to be the serving of the boar's head at later Christmas feasts".[4]
The confraternities of artisans of the 9th century, which developed into the medieval guilds, were denounced by Catholic clergy for their "conjurations" when they swore to support one another in coming adversity and in business ventures. The occasions were annual banquets on December 26,

"feast day of the pagan god Jul, when it was possible to couple with the spirits of the dead and with demons that returned to the surface of the earth... Many clerics denounced these conjurations as being not only a threat to public order but also, more serious in their eyes, satanic and immoral. Hincmar, in 858, sought in vain to Christianize them" (Rouche 1987, p. 432).

[edit] Connection to modern Christmas
Many of the symbols and motifs associated with the modern holiday of Christmas are derived from traditional pagan northern European Yule celebrations. The burning of the Yule log, the decorating of Christmas trees, the eating of ham, the hanging of boughs, holly, mistletoe, etc. are all historically practices associated with Yule. When the Christianization of the Germanic peoples began, missionaries found it convenient to provide a Christian reinterpretation of popular pagan holidays such as Yule and allow the celebrations themselves to go on largely unchanged, versus trying to confront and suppress them. The Scandinavian tradition of slaughtering a pig at Christmas (see Christmas ham) is probably salient evidence of this. The tradition is thought to be derived from the sacrifice of boars to the god Freyr at the Yule celebrations. Halloween and Easter are likewise assimilated from northern European pagan festivals.

English historian Bede's Historia ecclesiastica gentis Anglorum ("Ecclesiastic History of the English People") contains a letter from Pope Gregory I to Saint Mellitus, who was then on his way to England to conduct missionary work among the pagan Anglo-Saxons. Pope Gregory suggested that converting heathens would go easier if they were allowed to retain the outward forms of their traditional pagan practices and traditions, while recasting those traditions spiritually towards the Christian God instead of to their pagan "devils": "to the end that, whilst some gratifications are outwardly permitted them, they may the more easily consent to the inward consolations of the grace of God". [5]


[edit] Neopaganism
As forms of Neopaganism can be quite different and have very different origins, these representations can vary considerably despite the shared name. Some celebrate in a manner as close as possible to how they believe that the Ancient Germanic pagans observed the tradition, while others observe the holiday with rituals culled from numerous other unrelated sources, Germanic culture being only one of the sources used.


[edit] Germanic neopaganism
In Germanic Neopagan sects, Yule is celebrated with gatherings that often involve a meal and gift giving. Further attempts at reconstruction of surviving accounts of historical celebrations are often made, a hallmark being variations of the traditional. However it has been pointed out that this is not really reconstruction as these traditions never died out - they have merely removed the superficial Christian elements from the celebrations bl?t.

Groups such as the Asatru Folk Assembly in the US recognize the celebration as lasting for 12 days, beginning on the date of the winter solstice.[4]


[edit] Wicca
In general, many Wiccan based sects favor a plethora of sources on winter solstice holidays to recreate a type of "Yule" holiday. While the name "Yule" is used, it is not an absolute reconstruction of the original holiday. Wreaths, Yule logs, decoration of trees, decorating with mistletoe, holly, and ivy, exchanges of presents, and even wassailing are incorporated and regarded as sacred. The return of the Sun as Frey is commemorated in some groups. However, due to the eclectic nature of modern Wicca, many solstice narratives from outside mythologies are incorporated or even substituted.

In some Wiccan sects the holiday is observed in a manner that commemorates the death of the Holly King identified with the wren bird (symbolizing the old year and the shortened sun) at the hands of his son and successor, the robin redbreast Oak King (the new year and the new sun that begins to grow) (Farrar & Farrar [1989] 1998: 35-38). In most Wiccan sects, this holiday is also celebrated as the rebirth of the Great God, who is viewed as the newborn solstice sun.

Proper terms is thus..

HAPPY HOLIDAYS otherwise you are favoring one religion over another while in the workplace and that is against the constitution.

CHECK MATE!!
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 03:07 pm
@STNGfan,
STNGfan;20564 wrote:
Yule ....CHECK ....


OK, and what happend to the Yule, when the population realized the error of their ways and converted to Christianity? Mate?? Christmas.

Show me where it says so in the Constitution or Bill of Rights.
0 Replies
 
STNGfan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 03:11 pm
@DesertDave,
They had no choice to convert. If you did not convert in Europe during the mass conversion in Europe you were burned at the stake or killed for blasmaphy of God.
Kind of like extremist muslims today convert or die.
People were forced to convert. They did not see the error of their ways LOL

Just like the crusades sent to covert and steal lands of the Muslims.
There were actually 7 crusades and the 6th crusades were made up entirely of children sent to be slaughtered by the muslims.
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 03:16 pm
@STNGfan,
STNGfan;20569 wrote:
They had no choice to convert. If you did not convert in Europe during the mass conversion in Europe you were burned at the stake or killed for blasmaphy of God.
Kind of like extremist muslims today convert or die.
People were forced to convert. They did not see the error of their ways LOL

Just like the crusades sent to covert and steal lands of the Muslims.
There were actually 7 crusades and the 6th crusades were made up entirely of children sent to be slaughtered by the muslims.


Let's try again, so, what happened to Yule?
0 Replies
 
STNGfan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 03:19 pm
@DesertDave,
It is still here. Yule log and wiccans and pagans still practice Yule. Who said it went anywhere just because you do not acknowlege it.
0 Replies
 
STNGfan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 03:21 pm
@STNGfan,
This article is about the medieval crusades. For other uses, see Crusade (disambiguation) and Crusade (definition).


The term is also used to describe contemporaneous and subsequent campaigns conducted through the 16th century in territories outside the Levant[4], usually against pagans, those considered by the Catholic Church to be heretics, and peoples under the ban of excommunication[2] for a mixture of religious, economic, and political reasons.[5] Rivalries among both Christian and Muslim powers led also to alliances between religious factions against their opponents, such as the Christian alliance with the Sultanate of Rum during the Fifth Crusade. The traditional numbering scheme for the Crusades includes the nine major expeditions to the Holy Land during the 11th to 13th centuries. Other unnumbered "crusades" continued into the 16th century, lasting until the political and religious climate of Europe was significantly changed during the Renaissance and Reformation.

The Children's Crusade was not a military campaign, but probably a popular uprising in France and/or Germany, possibly with the intention of reaching the Holy Land in order to convert Muslims there peacefully to Christianity.

The Crusades had far-reaching political, economic, and social impacts, some of which have lasted into contemporary times. Because of internal conflicts among Christian kingdoms and political powers, some of the crusade expeditions (such as the Fourth Crusade) were diverted from their original aim and resulted in the sack of a Christian city, the Byzantine capital, Constantinople. The Sixth Crusade was the first crusade to set sail without the official blessing of the Church, establishing the precedent that rulers other than the Pope could initiate a crusade.
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 03:38 pm
@STNGfan,
STNGfan;20573 wrote:
This article is about the medieval crusades. For other uses, see Crusade (disambiguation) and Crusade (definition).


The term is also used to describe contemporaneous and subsequent campaigns conducted through the 16th century in territories outside the Levant[4], usually against pagans, those considered by the Catholic Church to be heretics, and peoples under the ban of excommunication[2] for a mixture of religious, economic, and political reasons.[5] Rivalries among both Christian and Muslim powers led also to alliances between religious factions against their opponents, such as the Christian alliance with the Sultanate of Rum during the Fifth Crusade. The traditional numbering scheme for the Crusades includes the nine major expeditions to the Holy Land during the 11th to 13th centuries. Other unnumbered "crusades" continued into the 16th century, lasting until the political and religious climate of Europe was significantly changed during the Renaissance and Reformation.

The Children's Crusade was not a military campaign, but probably a popular uprising in France and/or Germany, possibly with the intention of reaching the Holy Land in order to convert Muslims there peacefully to Christianity.

The Crusades had far-reaching political, economic, and social impacts, some of which have lasted into contemporary times. Because of internal conflicts among Christian kingdoms and political powers, some of the crusade expeditions (such as the Fourth Crusade) were diverted from their original aim and resulted in the sack of a Christian city, the Byzantine capital, Constantinople. The Sixth Crusade was the first crusade to set sail without the official blessing of the Church, establishing the precedent that rulers other than the Pope could initiate a crusade.


You are right, Christians just need to stand firm and defend themselves. Problem is, when they attempt to do that, people just can't leave them alone. They turn the check until they get whiplash. Then what happens?
0 Replies
 
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 04:05 pm
@DesertDave,
then nothing

nobody is attacking christians, we just want you guys to understand that you can't run our (as in you and I's) country with your theology and you must give equality to those who aren't christian

unfortunaltly by your standards that's "attacking" your religion

you wan the same thing the Taliban wants, a country ruled by your choice of faith
0 Replies
 
STNGfan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 05:21 pm
@DesertDave,
I agree. First Volunteer says that pagans in europe saw the errors of their ways that they somehow chose to accept the bible and jesus as their savior but when I bring up proof that they had no choice but to convert or face prosecution or death than we are treating Christians badly by bringing up their faults and their oppression of other faiths.
I have no problem with moderate Christians who mind their own business but when you start making laws based on the bible to control my life than I have a problem with it.
Christians are used to having the majority and the control in the U.S and they are slowly losing their power and acting out now.
We have gone in the wrong direction of what our forefathers wanted of us. Seperation of chruch and state and freedom of religion.
Christians have the monopoly here and it is not accident. They demonize and tell people they will go to hell and their eternal soul will suffer if they follow any other religion or non religion. They take your soul as hostage and use fear to keep people faithful.
It is fear mongering.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 05:31 pm
@STNGfan,
STNGfan;20593 wrote:
I agree. First Volunteer says that pagans in europe saw the errors of their ways that they somehow chose to accept the bible and jesus as their savior but when I bring up proof that they had no choice but to convert or face prosecution or death than we are treating Christians badly by bringing up their faults and their oppression of other faiths.
I have no problem with moderate Christians who mind their own business but when you start making laws based on the bible to control my life than I have a problem with it.
Christians are used to having the majority and the control in the U.S and they are slowly losing their power and acting out now.
We have gone in the wrong direction of what our forefathers wanted of us. Seperation of chruch and state and freedom of religion.
Christians have the monopoly here and it is not accident. They demonize and tell people they will go to hell and their eternal soul will suffer if they follow any other religion or non religion. They take your soul as hostage and use fear to keep people faithful.
It is fear mongering.
Quote:
I bring up proof that they had no choice but to convert or face prosecution or death
So they did have a choice, i guess you could say they didn't have enough faith in what ever they believed in to not convert? Sounds like a person of weak spirit/conviction? Why didn't they fight back, because they were weak? In any case you just proved yourself wrong as they did have a choice, regardless of one of those choices being death, but a choice none the less. So if you based your arguement on this premise then it would make your point wrong because they did have a choice, wouldn't you agree?
Quote:
Christians are used to having the majority and the control in the U.S
Maybe it's because we are the majority. How come we don't here you guys complaining about religion in the military, How many atheists do you think are enlisted as compared to those who are not? 99.9 to .1? Shouldn't sep of C and S remove religion from the Fox hole?
Quote:
Christians have the monopoly here and it is not accident.
You damn right on that, the reason it's like that is because our forfathers wanted it that way!
Quote:
They demonize and tell people they will go to hell and their eternal soul will suffer if they follow any other religion or non religion.
Have you proven then wrong or are just tired of hearing it? You do know that freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion. I know a lot of atheists get them confused
Quote:
They take your soul as hostage and use fear to keep people faithful.
They can't take a soul, boy somebody has you all twisted up.
Quote:
It is fear mongering.
The big bad Christians are coming to get you, do you mind giving your address so it'll be easier to find you, LOL.
0 Replies
 
STNGfan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 05:40 pm
@DesertDave,
yes and I am sure if a bunch of muslim extremist who came along and decided to behead the non believers of America that non of the Christians would covert. The U.S journalist did. Are you saying those christians lacked faith.
I am sorry but if someone came and said that they were going to kill me or my kids I would pretend to convert to whatever religion they asked me to. It has nothing to do with faith and everything to do with survival.

You proved nothing but you lack of understand of the human need to survive.

If you are willing to sacrifice your kids lives and your lives just to prove you have faith good ridence.

I will take survival 101 thank you and secretly pass on my old religion behind their backs.

You see if they truly lacked faith paganism would not have survived. Also if they just died instead of lying about converting paganism would be extinct. They were smarter than you think.

and by the way not all converted and some said they would rather fight and die but the Christians knew they could not fight them all this is why Christians incorperated pagan rituals with Christians ones so the Pagans would convert peacefully.
STNGfan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 05:47 pm
@DesertDave,
paganism is alive and well in America Smile
Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 06:02 pm
@STNGfan,
STNGfan;20598 wrote:
yes and I am sure if a bunch of muslim extremist who came along and decided to behead the non believers of America that non of the Christians would covert. The U.S journalist did. Are you saying those christians lacked faith.
I am sorry but if someone came and said that they were going to kill me or my kids I would pretend to convert to whatever religion they asked me to. It has nothing to do with faith and everything to do with survival.

You proved nothing but you lack of understand of the human need to survive.

If you are willing to sacrifice your kids lives and your lives just to prove you have faith good ridence.

I will take survival 101 thank you and secretly pass on my old religion behind their backs.

You see if they truly lacked faith paganism would not have survived. Also if they just died instead of lying about converting paganism would be extinct. They were smarter than you think.

and by the way not all converted and some said they would rather fight and die but the Christians knew they could not fight them all this is why Christians incorperated pagan rituals with Christians ones so the Pagans would convert peacefully.

Quote:
yes and I am sure if a bunch of muslim extremist who came along and decided to behead the non believers of America that non of the Christians would covert.
No they wouldn't, haven't you heard about the crusades? I on the other hand think you would convert to Islam if the same scenario happened to you? Or would you die for your lack of faith? I personally am prepared to die for mine. Come on be honest.
Quote:
The U.S journalist did.
You mean Pearle, too bad they cut of his head anyway huh? What's your policy on XMus? How would you deal with them?
Quote:
Are you saying those christians lacked faith.
They weren't Christians yet if they were being forced to convert? If it was Pearle you ment then yes again, why did he convert if not for fear of life and limb, you consider that brave?
Quote:
I am sorry but if someone came and said that they were going to kill me or my kids I would pretend to convert to whatever religion they asked me to.
I figured, your lack of faith leads to lack of conviction, when faced with a situation like that you will cower and conceed. People like you will be seeking protection from people like me when they do come a knocking.
Quote:
It has nothing to do with faith and everything to do with survival.
And you call yourself an American? Why don't you convert to Christianity, to get you to convert all one has to do it threaten you or your kids? You don't like the Christians but you cower to the XMus, how brave you are? Sure that's that example you wanna shoe to your kids, you wanna bring up another set of cowards?
Quote:
You proved nothing but you lack of understand of the human need to survive.
To survive, one has to be prepared to kill. If not for you, it would be for the preservation of your children. How prepared are you? Sounds like Allah is in your future!
Quote:
If you are willing to sacrifice your kids lives and your lives just to prove you have faith good ridence.
I wish you the same, i'm what standing inbetween them form getting you. I'm sure you'll feel fine when you see them and start kissing there feet for saving you?
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 06:34 pm
@DesertDave,
Quote:
Just like the crusades sent to covert and steal lands of the Muslims.
There were actually 7 crusades and the 6th crusades were made up entirely of children sent to be slaughtered by the muslims.


You people seriously piss me off, I hate having to say this so much, but the Crusades in the Levant were valid military expeditions. Need more? Go ahead and present whatever accusations against them you want.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 06:38 pm
@DesertDave,
Quote:
You mean Pearle, too bad they cut of his head anyway huh? QUOTE]

Maybe Centanni?
0 Replies
 
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 10:27 pm
@DesertDave,
DesertDave;18915 wrote:
Statistics and polls of younger people 21-35 show a marked increase moving away from organized religions. Independent thought and the increase of this generation to distrust and not understand many long reaching ideas about faith have driven them to explore many of the other practices like Buddhism, Spiritualism, Shintoism etc.

I for one lived in Asia for 8 years. I met some of the best people I've ever had the priveldge to know in Japan etc. I still keep in contact with some via e-mail and all of them would be considered atheists by US standards.

They are all very happy, well adjusted, successful family people with professional jobs and networks of relatives, all live without traditional faiths. This knowledge of people living happily is a huge threat for christainity on many fronts.

Most Americans when they hear "Atheist" feel fear, perhaps due to their own inadequate level of faith, an internal mechanism triggering fears of mortality and death with no belief of living past death.

Fear should never be a motivating factor to beleive in christianity. It's nice to have that warm/fuzzy of a belief system to fend of the death thing but why do so many in Asia thrive without?

I think it's cultural to an extent, Americans are at best simple minded when it comes to life. Interestingly enough, it seems the older the country, the better the culture.

If you can't put your belief system to the acid test, confront it, question it, keep an open mind, validate it - it isn't much of a belief system. Blindly following is no system either, many christians are christians for the simple resaon that there are so many christians - so it must be true! BS, numbers don't prove anything yet we all understand death, the binding factor, not enough reason for a faith based religion.


It always seems strange to me when I talk with people who donot believe in God. I'm one of those people who gave my heart to God when I was very young. Since that time I have had many encounters with God. I have seen Him work wonders in my life, and I have heard His voice, He has taken me to heaven and so much more. Jesus Christ is God and He is coming again. He is not just some historical person He really is God. I have also had encounters with beings from the darkside and they are truly evil. I thank God that with my simple faith I have believe in Him and know that a day will come when I will stand before Him. He loves us all. If we could only learn to love Him. Our best arguements to oppose Him in the future will appear so lame when we stand before Him.
0 Replies
 
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2007 01:07 am
@DesertDave,
DesertDave;18915 wrote:
Statistics and polls of younger people 21-35 show a marked increase moving away from organized religions. Independent thought and the increase of this generation to distrust and not understand many long reaching ideas about faith have driven them to explore many of the other practices like Buddhism, Spiritualism, Shintoism etc.

I for one lived in Asia for 8 years. I met some of the best people I've ever had the priveldge to know in Japan etc. I still keep in contact with some via e-mail and all of them would be considered atheists by US standards.

They are all very happy, well adjusted, successful family people with professional jobs and networks of relatives, all live without traditional faiths. This knowledge of people living happily is a huge threat for christainity on many fronts.

Most Americans when they hear "Atheist" feel fear, perhaps due to their own inadequate level of faith, an internal mechanism triggering fears of mortality and death with no belief of living past death.

Fear should never be a motivating factor to beleive in christianity. It's nice to have that warm/fuzzy of a belief system to fend of the death thing but why do so many in Asia thrive without?

I think it's cultural to an extent, Americans are at best simple minded when it comes to life. Interestingly enough, it seems the older the country, the better the culture.

If you can't put your belief system to the acid test, confront it, question it, keep an open mind, validate it - it isn't much of a belief system. Blindly following is no system either, many christians are christians for the simple resaon that there are so many christians - so it must be true! BS, numbers don't prove anything yet we all understand death, the binding factor, not enough reason for a faith based religion.


It was Jesus who asked the question. When He returns would there be any faith left on the earth, so it appears the rise of Atheism or Agnostic beliefs would only confirm the prophecies of the Bible. The Bible tells us the time would come when men will not endure sound doctrine but would be turned away by teachers who would not embrace the truth of the Scriptures. I would say the Bible hit that nail right on the head. I find it also interesting that the Bible tells us that near the end of time we would see the Jews back in Israel, and they would of retaken Jerusalem. The Bible tells us that when this happens that the world would focus on who would control Jerusalem. I think to ignore the facts of the Bible only allows one to blindly follow his own imagination.
STNGfan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2007 09:50 am
@Drnaline,
Drnaline;20601 wrote:
No they wouldn't, haven't you heard about the crusades? I on the other hand think you would convert to Islam if the same scenario happened to you? Or would you die for your lack of faith? I personally am prepared to die for mine. Come on be honest.You mean Pearle, too bad they cut of his head anyway huh? What's your policy on XMus? How would you deal with them?They weren't Christians yet if they were being forced to convert? If it was Pearle you ment then yes again, why did he convert if not for fear of life and limb, you consider that brave?
I figured, your lack of faith leads to lack of conviction, when faced with a situation like that you will cower and conceed. People like you will be seeking protection from people like me when they do come a knocking.And you call yourself an American? Why don't you convert to Christianity, to get you to convert all one has to do it threaten you or your kids? You don't like the Christians but you cower to the XMus, how brave you are? Sure that's that example you wanna shoe to your kids, you wanna bring up another set of cowards?To survive, one has to be prepared to kill. If not for you, it would be for the preservation of your children. How prepared are you? Sounds like Allah is in your future!I wish you the same, i'm what standing inbetween them form getting you. I'm sure you'll feel fine when you see them and start kissing there feet for saving you?


Wow I am a coward and unamerican. Don't like what someone has to say and so you personally attack the person instead of the idea.:beat:
You are a waste of time.
Your conviction needs nothing

lets put it this way. Jesus's disiples did not have conviction when Jesus was being tortured by the Romans just before he was crusified. Many Jews pointed to the disiples and and said they followed Jesus's blasmaphy that he claimed he was the son of God. They all... ALL of them all 12 hide and denied they ever knew Jesus!! So you are saying that the disiples of Jesus were cowards because they would not face persecution and execution for following Jesus and spreading hearsay at the time.

Well put.. the disiples of Jesus were cowards.. you said it yourself.

fortunatly for you and other Christians the bible would have never been written if they had been brave enough to face death with Jesus for ensighting blasmaphy and hearsy.
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