I heard something profound today

Sound profound. And right. I say if your on welfare you need to also be on some work training program or still looking for some work, like unemployment.
We have 3rd generation of families on welfare. and why because it is a large sum of $ and they are finding many abuses of it by the ones receiving it as well as those that dispense it.
maybe that thoought should be sent to the Congress as well as the Senate. if nothing else it would confuse them.

socialism sucks. most of us here realize this.

does the richest country in the world having a National Health Service for its people,socialism ?

yup... because it makes ME, a hard-working capitalist, pay for others who are lazy or won't fend for themselves.

unless its a common use item (such as highways, police, fire dept, etc) i don't want to pay for it.

i don't use welfare...i have a job, i shouldn't have to pay for it.
i don't want to use this stupid health care... i have my own already, i shouldn't have to pay for it.


we can spends billions a day in iraq... surely, i shouldn't have to pay more for these socialism plans.

i find the richest country in the world not having a NHS,shocking !

exactly, I've never used walfare, always paid taxes, and refuse to collect unemployment. yet I pay for it. I'm not paying for other people's healthcare to. I work hard for my dental/ health coverage, others should too

beyond that, you know what NHC would do to the salaries of our doctor's nurse's and pharmacists?

Well, I've never used walfare, as I'm not sure what that is...I have taken advantage of welfare (the word you intended...I swear..is it laziness or clumsiness, that causes people to send out stuff with mispellings?), in the form of "food stamps", for a short while, when I was unemployed...most everyone pays their taxes, so you don't get a medal for that.
Those that have not the means, should be taken care of...it's the Christian thing to do, and the least that government can do for the less fortunate...we're not talking able-bodied folks...we're talking children, elderly and sick folk...it's clear who has a heart and who would turn a blind eye.

And perhaps...doctors might have to scale their spending back....2 vacations a year instead of 4 or 5...2 cars instead of 5...and shopping at Sears, instead of M. Penner and Armani. Nothing more obscene than getting rich off sick people. I am all for NHS...where do I sign up?

it's all well and good to get a helping hand in some down times. Any one of us could lose their jobs tomorrow.

The problem is that I think everyone in here agrees that it is a temporary last-resort solution until you find a new job.

The problem with our system is that its NOT temporary because people are too busy having sex and popping out kids to stay on the damn thing. (need I re-find my neutering thread?)

I myself took unemployment for about a month back in 2000. the place i was working at shut down for the month of january (golf club... snow ... doesn't work). I don't see anything wrong with it. As a working person, we all put into that system in CASE of this. Moreover, our employers pay a tax on this to cover it.

Food stamps is one step further, but is the next necessary step to eat. My problem with food stamps is that they are too liberal with what you can buy with them.
I want to see food stamps banned to only bread, milk, water, sugar, eggs, etc.... the necessities. There's no need to be buying expensive TV dinners on them. If you want a TV dinner, pay for it. If you want to survive, enjoy your staple foods. If we didn't just give all the good stuff out so easily, it would make people WANT to go get a job again so they can TASTE the tv dinner again.

Our welfare system is almost the same way. it allows for too much 'niceness'. it's not strict enough to give a 'crappy' lifestyle. welfare should cover rent, heating, school supplies, and a bus pass. that's about it. you want something more, get a job. in the meantime, you CAN live off that.



but that is exactly the problem. even my heart-less ass WANTS to take care of the kids and the elderly.

the problem is that theres SO many able-bodied folks on it who have just abused the system to all hell and makes me not want to put a dime into it any more.

the entire system needs to be reformed.

IMO, if you're 18-55, have both arms, legs, and eyes and aren't sick with cancer or something, there is 0 reason why you shouldn't be at work. If you do happen to get out of work, you must apply for a labor job or whatever the area provides before you can get a stipend. If you get fired from said job for being a poor worker, you lose your stipend privilege or something.
We have a similar system now, and the problem is, these people go to the job they have to go to, and just suck at it and get canned... and then wait again for the next one to do the same thing.
THAT needs to stop.



it's not a problem so much for current doctors, as it is future doctors.

Who the hell wants to be in school till they're 32-35 to come out and make the same as the business or finance major who went to school till he was 22 with a 9-5 and no on-call; vs 8-midnight 4 days a week, and on call 24/7.

Not me.

enrollment in MD programs will drop like crazy, and pretty soon, there won't BE any doctors qualified to GIVE the free treatment in the first place.
THIS is the fundamental problem with socilism.

those who would normally WANT to put in all kinds of effort to do something, won't, because it doesn't pay off.

ultimately, 'the christian thing to do' is usually the poor choice. pun intended.

Were you sick, old, or a child when using foodstamps?

Who are you to dictate to doctors and pharmacists how they should earn, let alone spend their money? How about the government starts regulating unknown "artists" and declares art a "right"?

What's obscene about making money? Doctors provide a highly demanded service to their consumers, and as such are entitled to charge for it. They went through years of school, interned, pulled a residency, and once they're on their own have every right to enjoy the fruits of their labor. If I work hard, and I earn more money than I need to survive, I have the right to spend that money on luxuries that I want. If you don't like the idea of doctors making a ton of money, tough, you're not a doctor, and therefore in no position to tell them how to live or what to do.

And what of the 20 million who aren't even Americans and get care and someday will get Social Security when the Liberals think of it.