Roman Catholic Bishop says: Just call God Allah

@Silverchild79,

Silverchild79;31438 wrote:

you know for a "timeless never changing" being he sure does go through the names...

Ah, but don't we all? I will use someone I know for example:

Sandra Lee, sweet pea, handra, hank, bug, Sandy, hon, mom, momma, mother, sweetheart, Grandma, Grandmother.... You see where I'm going. Names of affection from people who loved her!

3 Replies

@Silverchild79,

yeah but I think the premise and perception of God is a bit Different then Sara Lee

... Unless you're Julia Child

EDIT: I'm leaving this up cause it's funny, but I just noticed it said Sandra Lee.

0 Replies

@Silverchild79,

I'll stick to God, Jesus Christ when I get mad. Opps that's blasphamy.

1 Reply

@Red cv,

Red;31460 wrote:

I'll stick to God, Jesus Christ when I get mad. Opps that's blasphamy.

Wha...? Red, are you a Christian? I'm confused.:no:

1 Reply

@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;31306 wrote:

Do your Muslim clerics have freedom of speech? :dunno:

HA!! NO infact if they are not careful they will be considered heratics or I apostates and I do believe a fatwa is set for anyone who is a apostate.

A muslim certianly has no room to criticize a Christian. It is like calling the kettle black...I would even go as far as calling it the blackest kettle calling all other kettles black.

You are not allowed to leave thier religion once you sign up and also you are a second class citizen. You have to pay fines in the muslim world if you are non-mulsim a tax and this tax is for protection...from..guess who.. the muslims, you do not get the same trial rights as muslims ect.. and so on.

I may have a lot of complaints about Christians but they have evolved much further than the mulsims when it comes to socail adaptations. Christian still hae a smack of supremisism about them. (Christian religion is the superior religon). They are becoming more tolerant..

But Muslims to every muslim that are the superior religoin there is no question about it. If you are not a muslim you are not equal.

Maybe some moderates tolerate non-muslims and they have learned to socialize and get along but deep down their books tell them that non-believers will burn no questions ask, This includes Christains.

Actually I think it is good medicine for the christians to be told they are the ones going to burn in hell and that their immortal soul is in danger. HA!! There is poetic justice for you. Listening CHristians complain from the same judgement the Christians give to non-christians.

2 Replies

@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;31512 wrote:

Wha...? Red, are you a Christian? I'm confused.:no:

I believe she is talking about using the lords( I take that with a grain of salt) name in vain.

"God damn it" and "JESUS CHRIST!!" for example. Things many people say when they are mad.

1 Reply

@STNGfan,

STNGfan;31520 wrote:

Maybe some moderates tolerate non-muslims and they have learned to socialize and get along but deep down their books tell them that non-believers will burn no questions ask, This includes Christains.

Actually I think it is good medicine for the christians to be told they are the ones going to burn in hell and that their immortal soul is in danger. HA!! There is poetic justice for you. Listening CHristians complain from the same judgement the Christians give to non-christians.

I always found this to be amusing.

"You're going to hell"

"No, you're going to hell"

"My god is bigger than your god"

"No, mine's bigger"

"No mine's bigger"

1 Reply

@STNGfan,

STNGfan;31520 wrote:

HA!! NO infact if they are not careful they will be considered heratics or I apostates and I do believe a fatwa is set for anyone who is a apostate.

A muslim certianly has no room to criticize a Christian. It is like calling the kettle black...I would even go as far as calling it the blackest kettle calling all other kettles black.

You are not allowed to leave thier religion once you sign up and also you are a second class citizen. You have to pay fines in the muslim world if you are non-mulsim a tax and this tax is for protection...from..guess who.. the muslims, you do not get the same trial rights as muslims ect.. and so on.

I may have a lot of complaints about Christians but they have evolved much further than the mulsims when it comes to socail adaptations. Christian still hae a smack of supremisism about them. (Christian religion is the superior religon). They are becoming more tolerant..

But Muslims to every muslim that are the superior religoin there is no question about it. If you are not a muslim you are not equal.

Maybe some moderates tolerate non-muslims and they have learned to socialize and get along but deep down their books tell them that non-believers will burn no questions ask, This includes Christains.

Actually I think it is good medicine for the christians to be told they are the ones going to burn in hell and that their immortal soul is in danger. HA!! There is poetic justice for you. Listening CHristians complain from the same judgement the Christians give to non-christians.

I knew some Muslim apostates in college. I wonder if I should have killed them, in the name of their former religion.:scratchchin:

1 Reply

@STNGfan,

STNGfan;31521 wrote:

I believe she is talking about using the lords( I take that with a grain of salt) name in vain.

"God damn it" and "JESUS CHRIST!!" for example. Things many people say when they are mad.

Probably. I found myself cussing a lot when our unexpected guests stayed for two months this summer.:no:

0 Replies

@westernmom,

[SIZE="2"]Why Jizyah? And how much are the taxes for both Muslims and non-Muslims? [/SIZE]

The Muslims have to pay taxes (which is 2.5 percent of their annual income) under the name of "Zakah" to the "Muslim Financial Institute" or the "House of the Muslim Money" which all goes to provide welfare to the poor and the needy citizens; from both Muslims and non-Muslims. The poor and the needy (such as the Orphans, Widows and the disabled) from the Muslims are exempt from paying taxes.

The non-Muslims have to pay a varrying amount under the name of "Jizyah", depending on their situation, which is taxes that don't go to help poor and needy Muslims, but instead, it goes to the government to (1) Provide protection for them since they are a minority; (2) Provide means for them to practice their religions freely by building Temples or Churches for them. The Jizyah that's applied on non-Muslims is much less that the taxes (Zakah) that Muslims must pay.

As I mentioned above for the non-Muslims, there are exemptions for the poor, for females and children (according to Abu Hanifah), for slaves, and for monks and hermits.

Non-Muslims are exempted from fighting or being soldiers to defend the Muslim lands.

It is important to know that the law in the Islamic State applies to everyone; both Muslims and non-Muslims equally.

1 Reply

@Silverchild79,

I'm not much a "swearer" (is that a word???) but my husband lets loose a lot and I can't quite figure it out. The &*%$^*&(^*% thing still won't work after all that!

I guess I consider my Heavenly Father and Christ as friends and when I get angry I don't usually use my friends' name to vent my frustrations.

0 Replies

@westernmom,

[SIZE="2"]Is there any Old Testament Equivalent to the Islamic Tributary Tax (Jizyah) of conquered lands?[/SIZE]

When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, [that] all the people [that is] found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.
And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, [even] all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities [which are] very far off from thee, which [are] not of the cities of these nations. -- Deu 20:10-15

[64] Chavel 1967, v.I, 200f. The Bible references are Deuteronomy 20.

This obligation is commented by Rabbi Chavel:

"This Commandment ... will be better understood in the light of the following passage from the 'Mishneh Torah': '

We are not to engage in war with anyone whatever unless we [first] proclaim peace to him; [this is applicable to both] an optional and an obligatory war; for it is said, When thou drawest nigh a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it (Deut XX, 10).

If [the inhabitants] accept the offer of peace... we are not to slay a soul among them, and they merely become tributary, for it is said, [All the people ... therein] shall become tributary unto thee, and shall serve thee'." (Ibid.)

Step 1 --- Give them the option of peace
Step 2 ---- If they want to keep their religion, they must pay the Tribute (Head Tax)
Step 3 ---- If they deny the above two options then kill them all or enslave them.

In other words, if the city's inhabitants object to being subdued/enslaved, they have to be slain nevertheless. Also sparing their life directly contradicts Negative Commandment 49 (see note [65]).

"We must not make a covenant with idolaters, to agree on keeping peace with them or accept them practising idolatry, because it says (Deut 7:2) Thou shalt not make a covenant with them. Either they give up idolatry or they are killed. And it is forbidden to pity them, since it says (ibid.): Nor shalt thou shew mercy unto them.

1 Reply

@92b16vx,

92b16vx;31534 wrote:

I always found this to be amusing.

"You're going to hell"

"No, you're going to hell"

"My god is bigger than your god"

"No, mine's bigger"

"No mine's bigger"

ROFLMAO!! It is funny because they are all looking at the same exact object just from different point of views and they telling each other they are doomed in hell for their point of view. I mean it could a semi- truck. The Muslims view it from the bottom and their discription of this object is completely different from the top view which the christians have or the side view that the mormons have and front view the jahovahs view. They cannot see the object as a whole because they are too busy squabbling over the details of who is write or wrong about thier particular view of the details.

This world will become a safer place when people starting thinking in 3 dementions instead of 2.

0 Replies

@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;31537 wrote:

I knew some Muslim apostates in college. I wonder if I should have killed them, in the name of their former religion.:scratchchin:

No only a muslim would kill them for being an apostate and even though it says in the koran to kill them most muslim will just treat them like dirt and outcast them.

A daughter of a muslim family converted to christianity and her father killed her mother for it. Because the mother was responsible for raising the child it was were faulty rearing that caused it and so the father put the mother to death.

In london several instances of honor killings are happening within the muslim community where the female daughter will date outside her faith and is murdered by her family members.

These are recent events in civilized countries. Makes one wonder...

2 Replies

@SWORD of GOD,

SWORD of GOD;31545 wrote:

[SIZE="2"]Why Jizyah? And how much are the taxes for both Muslims and non-Muslims? [/SIZE]

The Muslims have to pay taxes (which is 2.5 percent of their annual income) under the name of "Zakah" to the "Muslim Financial Institute" or the "House of the Muslim Money" which all goes to provide welfare to the poor and the needy citizens; from both Muslims and non-Muslims. The poor and the needy (such as the Orphans, Widows and the disabled) from the Muslims are exempt from paying taxes.

The non-Muslims have to pay a varrying amount under the name of "Jizyah", depending on their situation, which is taxes that don't go to help poor and needy Muslims, but instead, it goes to the government to (1) Provide protection for them since they are a minority; (2) Provide means for them to practice their religions freely by building Temples or Churches for them. The Jizyah that's applied on non-Muslims is much less that the taxes (Zakah) that Muslims must pay.

As I mentioned above for the non-Muslims, there are exemptions for the poor, for females and children (according to Abu Hanifah), for slaves, and for monks and hermits.

Non-Muslims are exempted from fighting or being soldiers to defend the Muslim lands.

It is important to know that the law in the Islamic State applies to everyone; both Muslims and non-Muslims equally.

I am sorry but this is not true...
Here is what this tax is truly for proof of submission to Islam law. dhimmi's are 2nd class citizens and are considered beneath muslims anyone who is not muslim is a dhimmi.

From the Koran itself!!
Qur'an
The imposition of jizya upon non-Muslims is mandated by the Qur'an Qur'an 9:29:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subduedDhimmi had more rights than other non-Muslim religious subjects, but fewer legal and social rights than Muslims.[4] This status applied to millions of people living from the Atlantic Ocean to India from the 7th century until modern times.[5]

The word dhimmi (plural dimam) literally means "protection, care, custody, covenant of protection, compact; responsibility, answerableness; financial obligation, liability, debt; inviolability, security of life and property; safeguard, guarantee, security; conscience" and ahl-dhimmi is "the free non-Muslim subjects living in Muslim countries who, in return for paying the capital tax, enjoyed protection and safety."[8]

Dhimmis were allowed to "practice their religion, subject to certain conditions, and to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy" and guaranteed their personal safety and security of property, in return for paying tribute and acknowledging Muslim supremacy.[9]

Taxation from the perspective of dhimmis who came under the Muslim rule, was "a concrete continuation of the taxes paid to earlier regimes"[10] (but now lower under the Muslim rule[11][12][13]) and from the point of view of the Muslim conqueror was a material proof of the dhimmi's subjection.[10]

Various restrictions were placed on Dhimmis, such as prohibitions against giving testimony in courts in cases involving Muslims.[14] Technically, this made dhimmis vulnerable to the whims of rulers and the violence of mobs[15].[16] However, persecution in the form of violent and active repression was rare and atypical.[17]. Another such restriction prohibited dhimmis from bearing arms. [18] Most of these restrictions had a social and symbolic rather than a tangible and practical character.[19]

While recognizing that the status of dhimmis under Islamic rule was inferior to that of their Muslim peers, Bernard Lewis states that their position "was very much easier than that of non-Christians or even of heretical Christians in medieval Europe."[20] For example, dhimmis rarely faced martyrdom or exile, or forced compulsion to change their religion, and with certain exceptions they were free in their choice of residence and profession.[21] And in general, the Muslim attitude toward dhimmis was one of contempt instead of hate, fear, or envy, and was rarely expressed in ethnic or racial terms.[22]

Dhimmi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now please tell me that Dhammi are not treated like second hand citizens and how they have the same rights as muslims and all that white washing you are trying to had out

0 Replies

@SWORD of GOD,

SWORD of GOD;31548 wrote:

[SIZE="2"]Is there any Old Testament Equivalent to the Islamic Tributary Tax (Jizyah) of conquered lands?[/SIZE]

When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, [that] all the people [that is] found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.
And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, [even] all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities [which are] very far off from thee, which [are] not of the cities of these nations. -- Deu 20:10-15

[64] Chavel 1967, v.I, 200f. The Bible references are Deuteronomy 20.

This obligation is commented by Rabbi Chavel:

"This Commandment ... will be better understood in the light of the following passage from the 'Mishneh Torah': '

We are not to engage in war with anyone whatever unless we [first] proclaim peace to him; [this is applicable to both] an optional and an obligatory war; for it is said, When thou drawest nigh a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it (Deut XX, 10).

If [the inhabitants] accept the offer of peace... we are not to slay a soul among them, and they merely become tributary, for it is said, [All the people ... therein] shall become tributary unto thee, and shall serve thee'." (Ibid.)

Step 1 --- Give them the option of peace
Step 2 ---- If they want to keep their religion, they must pay the Tribute (Head Tax)
Step 3 ---- If they deny the above two options then kill them all or enslave them.

In other words, if the city's inhabitants object to being subdued/enslaved, they have to be slain nevertheless. Also sparing their life directly contradicts Negative Commandment 49 (see note [65]).

"We must not make a covenant with idolaters, to agree on keeping peace with them or accept them practising idolatry, because it says (Deut 7:2) Thou shalt not make a covenant with them. Either they give up idolatry or they are killed. And it is forbidden to pity them, since it says (ibid.): Nor shalt thou shew mercy unto them.

Hey I never said Christians treated non christians any better however in todays "modern world" Christians are giving up those riducolous values where is most middle eastern countries are still proclaiming it as ethical and correct. Christians have grown over the centuries much further than the muslims world.

0 Replies

@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;31306 wrote:

Do your Muslim clerics have freedom of speech? :dunno:

does Islam say they should not have one?
no it does not
and there is no freedom of speech for anyone, and thats because of the autocratic governments put in place thanks to your government's interference , i want you to think about the fact that iam a victim of your government and tell me how it feels, i dont blame you though.

Islam grants freedom of expression to all (muslims-nonmuslims) but no one should insult divene (whatever's) muslim or christian or jewish, because we respect their feelings.

you dont have that kind of civilization do you?

0 Replies

@STNGfan,

STNGfan;31564 wrote:

No only a muslim would kill them for being an apostate and even though it says in the koran to kill them most muslim will just treat them like dirt and outcast them.

A daughter of a muslim family converted to christianity and her father killed her mother for it. Because the mother was responsible for raising the child it was were faulty rearing that caused it and so the father put the mother to death.

In london several instances of honor killings are happening within the muslim community where the female daughter will date outside her faith and is murdered by her family members.

These are recent events in civilized countries. Makes one wonder...

Quote:

A daughter of a muslim family converted to christianity and her father killed her mother for it

what does Islam have to do with this, no where in the Quraan does it say to do so? this is a case of a person who murdered his own wife for whatever reason, got nothing to do with Islam teachings.

Quote:

Because the mother was responsible for raising the child it was were faulty rearing that caused it and so the father put the mother to death.

Exactly , that was his reasoning, i dont see Quraanic verses here? that was the guys mind working, so take him to jail and let him rot there.

Quote:

In london several instances of honor killings are happening within the muslim community where the female daughter will date outside her faith and is murdered by her family members.

let me tell you a little bit about Islams teachings (bear with me will ya)
Honor killings are from cultural background, society's teachings, what Islam says in the case of sexualy relations ships , if the boy/girl wasnot married before then they must be flogged 80 beatings each, but care must be given in this that no blood is drawn(its a must), in the case of those who were married before its stoning to death (whether man or woman) , but to prove adultery u need 4 eyewitnesses , please notice i said eyewitnesses becasue unless u have 4 eyewitnesses who saw it together and not one by one (which is much more difficult) and each one of them must establish that he actually saw (i will have to be quite specific here) the male organ entering the female organ, anything else will not do, for example if he saw them laying naked above each other without being able to see the organs at work you are not considered as a witness, so its actually pritty damn difficult for such a thing to happen, i mean a guy and girl being so horny they do it in a way allowing four eyewitnesses to see them (all four together) and actually see the intercourse happening (like i said organs at work) then these two would be flogged if not married before and stoned to death if married before, which i personaly think they deserve it, having had sex before (as they were married before) and still are so horny to do it in such a way to let others see them then these two are nothing but animals, and i dont give a rats ass about them.

all these difficulties were put in place to assure that no innocent man or woman may be stoned to death, if four people say they saw them do it and all the four were present together then it surely did happen.

0 Replies

@Silverchild79,

and about christians calling God Allah, its makes absolutely no difference,
tree is (shajara) in arabic so what if u say shajara or tree, it doesnot make a difference , these are two words for the same thing, i very frequently use the word God and its not because that will please christians, because its the same thing.

0 Replies

@westernmom,

They are not the same. (I am not a conforming religious person)

Also to address the statement made about Mulisms killing their female family members for leaving the religion or marrying outside the (family) that is very true. The part about it happening in a civilized country is just silly. There is a murder in the US every 4 seconds, for less than a few bucks in a womans purse, these people that live in our civilized world don't think as we do. That is exactly why we are so different from each other, they do not have the same human rights beliefs that Western World people have. It has nothing to do with what country they live in, they will be uncivililzed with human rights where ever they live. If they get caught in our country, they will go to prison. In their country the will be rewarded for it by the "Almighty Allah". That doesn't sound like the same "God" to me.

1 Reply

Roman Catholic Bishop says: Just call God Allah

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