Did Jesus even exist?

@Professor Chaos,

Not only did He exist, but exists within me today. That's how I know, in the strongest sense. Jesus dwells within me. He said that He would, in the case of those who believed in Him, and He does, in me, because I do. The harder His enemies attempt to erase Him from history, the stronger He grows within me. The more oppressed I become, in His name, the more privileged I feel, to fight for Him. When they come under the banner of various heathen causes, movements and authorities, to arrest, torture and sadistically murder me and my family, however, I will fight back. The Heathen will feel the sting of a Christian opposition determined to rebuild Christendom. If this constitutes 'hate-speech', that deceitful euphemism used to mask neo-Communsim and Islamofascism, then I am, by that fraudulent standard, guilty of so-called 'hate-speech'. Come and get me, Stalin. I'm ready to die fighting you.

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@Pinochet73,

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You are obviously a scholar and studied this subject long and thoroughly.

Well, that isn?t the area and period that I specialized in when I took my degree, but it became a hobby in later years. I am not the best, but I can normally hold my own in a discussion of the subject. It is my contention that if you are going to discuss any of the revealed religions, you should at least have a comprehensive understanding and knowledge of the history of that religion, something most believers do no have. And if you try to skew history to ?prove? your religion, I will call you on it and give the evidence that refutes your contention.

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Not only did He exist, but exists within me today. That's how I know, in the strongest sense. Jesus dwells within me. He said that He would, in the case of those who believed in Him, and He does, in me, because I do.

Hey, if that is what rings your chimes, I am glad for you. Just keep it to yourself, I am not buying it or any other mythology.

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If this constitutes 'hate-speech', that deceitful euphemism used to mask neo-Communsim and Islamofascism, then I am, by that fraudulent standard, guilty of so-called 'hate-speech'. Come and get me, Stalin. I'm ready to die fighting you.

According to your mythology, that is not what your Lord taught:
Matthew 26:50 And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus and took him.
26:51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. :patriot:

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@Pinochet73,

I read at least one book on Major World Religions that questioned whether Jesus even existed. There are at least 2 reasons for such doubts:

1. New Testament is written in Aramiac, which is a dialect of Greek. Also, Jesus' claimed miracles work to place it closer to Greek mythology;

2. No independent historian of Jesus' time mentions Jesus.

Regardless, I believe that Jesus existed. Jesus was no where near as strong a character as Moses or Muhammad. Jesus' religion prospered mostly thru luck than by any of Jesus' own doings. Also, Jesus lived too short of a life. I think, for these reasons, no independent historian of the time ever wrote about Jesus. I think, The Last Temptation of Christ (1988), portrays Jesus accurately. Jesus was a kind, emotional, unhappy and often lost character, who really didn't know what he wanted. If he had any direction, it was due to his witful apostles.

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@Professor Chaos,

"Hey, if that is what rings your chimes, I am glad for you. Just keep it to yourself, I am not buying it or any other mythology."

How does 'no' sound? Is 'no' okay for you?

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@RedOct,

RedOct;28775 wrote:

I read at least one book on Major World Religions that questioned whether Jesus even existed. There are at least 2 reasons for such doubts:

1. New Testament is written in Aramiac, which is a dialect of Greek. Also, Jesus' claimed miracles work to place it closer to Greek mythology;

2. No independent historian of Jesus' time mentions Jesus.

Regardless, I believe that Jesus existed. Jesus was no where near as strong a character as Moses or Muhammad. Jesus' religion prospered mostly thru luck than by any of Jesus' own doings. Also, Jesus lived too short of a life. I think, for these reasons, no independent historian of the time ever wrote about Jesus. I think, The Last Temptation of Christ (1988), portrays Jesus accurately. Jesus was a kind, emotional, unhappy and often lost character, who really didn't know what he wanted. If he had any direction, it was due to his witful apostles.

"Last Temptation of Christ" is garbage. :thumbdown:

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@Pinochet73,

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How does 'no' sound? Is 'no' okay for you?

In other words, you only accept the teachings of Jesus that you agree with.

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"Last Temptation of Christ" is garbage.

The NT is full of contradictions, superstition and errors in history, geography and science, which I guess could lead someone (not me, I enjoy the absurd humor of it too much) to also call it ?garbage?. :patriot:

1 Reply

@mako cv,

mako;28908 wrote:

In other words, you only accept the teachings of Jesus that you agree with.

The NT is full of contradictions, superstition and errors in history, geography and science, which I guess could lead someone (not me, I enjoy the absurd humor of it too much) to also call it ?garbage?. :patriot:

Yeah......I guess Star Trek has some much more to offer.:wtf:

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@Pinochet73,

Not actually being a Trekkie, I really wouldn't know...although like any other fiction, the NT has to be judged on its content and story line. In short, it wouldn't even make a good Star Trek episode. On the up side, the OT makes the cut (barely), it is fair fiction albeit not very accurate historically :patriot:

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@mako cv,

mako;29004 wrote:

Not actually being a Trekkie, I really wouldn't know...although like any other fiction, the NT has to be judged on its content and story line. In short, it wouldn't even make a good Star Trek episode. On the up side, the OT makes the cut (barely), it is fair fiction albeit not very accurate historically :patriot:

You're just one more person, with an anus and an opinion, trying to thwart a massive movement, ideology and set of institutions -- even an entire civilization -- that have swept the world for over four millennia. You'll need more than luck, talent and opportunity. You'll a thousand life-times, which you obviously can't have. :devilheadbang: Laughing

:devilheadbang:

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@Pinochet73,

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You're just one more person, with an anus and an opinion, trying to thwart a massive movement, ideology and set of institutions -- even an entire civilization

Evidentially, I am not the only "anus and opinion. Don't look now, but your "massive movement" is slowly dying...in 1990 87% of Americans claimed to be Christian and in 2000 only 62% claimed to be Christian (U.S. Census Bureau figures)...that's a 2.5% a year lose of membership. At that rate, in a decade, Christianity will be a minority religion in the U.S. The only place in the world that Christianity is growing is the 3rd world, mainly Africa. The first African Christian missionaries to the Americas are already here! This problem is the subject of discussion in the majority of Denominational news publications and by the anxiety shown in the articles must be a very worrisome matter to the various denominational heirarchies.:devilheadbang: :devilheadbang: Laughing

:devilheadbang: :devilheadbang: :patriot:

1 Reply

@mako cv,

mako;29029 wrote:

Evidentially, I am not the only "anus and opinion. Don't look now, but your "massive movement" is slowly dying...in 1990 87% of Americans claimed to be Christian and in 2000 only 62% claimed to be Christian (U.S. Census Bureau figures)...that's a 2.5% a year lose of membership. At that rate, in a decade, Christianity will be a minority religion in the U.S. The only place in the world that Christianity is growing is the 3rd world, mainly Africa. The first African Christian missionaries to the Americas are already here! This problem is the subject of discussion in the majority of Denominational news publications and by the anxiety shown in the articles must be a very worrisome matter to the various denominational heirarchies.:devilheadbang: :devilheadbang: :devilheadbang: :devilheadbang: :patriot:

That's why I didn't see the point in taking more statistics courses than I had to in my Master's program. Stats turn to crap, in the wrong hands. Your analysis overlooks one massive, contradictory factor: THE U.S. IS BEING COLONIZED BY LATIN AMERICA, WHICH IS CATHOLIC, AND VERY RELIGIOUS. By the end of the 21st Century, the U.S. will be a largely Hispanic society, and therefore, VERY, VERY CHRISTIAN AND CONSERVATIVE.

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@Pinochet73,

In other words, you have no real rebuttal and must tap dance around the subject. :patriot:

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@mako cv,

mako;29038 wrote:

In other words, you have no real rebuttal and must tap dance around the subject. :patriot:

Huh? You don't get it -- Christianity in the U.S. is growing, due to Spanish American immigration. Have you ever been to Spanish America? It's so Catholic, that even I, a dedicated Catholic, got a bit turned off. I was actually relieved, in a cynical way, when Semana Santa ended, my first year in Panama. I thought, "Thank God. At last I can buy beer at 2:00 a.m. (or whenever else I ran out), again." :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

PS: If you're not a Trekie, why the avatar?

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@Pinochet73,

We will let the National Council of Churches answer that question:

The National Council of Churches has issued its 75th Yearbook of American and Canadian churches.
It?s an invaluable resource for many folks, journalists included.
It?s always fun to see the largest Christian nominations. Who?s grown? Who?s gotten smaller?
Here is the top 25, including an increase or decrease in membership from last year:
1. The Catholic Church, 69,135,254 members, reporting an increase of 1.94 percent.
2. The Southern Baptist Convention, 16,270,315 members, reporting a increase of .02 percent.
3. The United Methodist Church, 8,075,010 members, reporting a decrease of 1.36 percent.
4. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 5,690,672 members, reporting an increase of 1.63 percent.
5. The Church of God in Christ, 5,499,875 members, no increase or decrease reported.
6. National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc., 5,000,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
7. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, 4,850,776, reporting a decrease of 1.62 percent.
8. National Baptist Convention of America, 3,500,000, no increase or decrease reported.
9. Presbyterian Church (USA), 3,098,842 members, reporting a decrease of 2.84 percent.
10. Assemblies of God, 2,830,861 members, reporting an increase of 1.86 percent.
11. African Methodist Episcopal Church, 2,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
12. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America, 2,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
13. Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc., 2,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
14. The Lutheran Church ? Missouri Synod (LCMS), 2,440,864, reporting a decrease or .93 percent.
15. Episcopal Church, 2,247,819, reporting a decrease of 1.59 percent.
16. Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, 1,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
17. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc., 1,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
18. The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church, 1,440,405 members, reporting an increase of .53 percent.
19. American Baptist Churches in the USA, 1,396,700, reporting a decrease of 1.97 percent.
20. United Church of Christ, 1,224,297, reporting a decrease of 3.28 percent.
21. Baptist Bible Fellowship International, 1,200,000, no increase or decrease reported.
22. Christian Churches and Churches of Christ, 1,071,615 members, no increase or decrease reported.
23. The Orthodox Church in America, 1,064,000 members, reporting an increase of 6.40 percent.
24. Jehovah?s Witnesses, 1,046,006 members, reporting a decrease of 1.56 percent.

That is a reported 14.20% increase and a 15.15% decrease, which works out to a .95% decrease ? I find it interesting that the Catholic Church only grew by 1.94 % and the Orthdox Church grew by 6.40?must be those ?backdoor? loving priests that the Catholic Church favors. You also have to remember that these increases ignore the members that quit but never bothered to tell their local church to disenroll them, continuing to count them, so the .95% decrease could be as high as 4% decrease. Face it, you are a member of a dying religion?probably a minority religion in less than 2 decades.
A Trekkie is obsessed with Star Trek, whereas the average viewer merely enjoys the story line and characters. I am a Stoic Deist and as such advocate logic, reason and knowledge, Mr. Spock from Star Trek being a good example of that has become my icon on numerous forums. :patriot:

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@Professor Chaos,

This is also known as 'crapola' in certain circles. As Spanish America gradually conquers the U.S., it'll become a largely Catholic nation.

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@Pinochet73,

The only problem is that the Orthodox Church is growing much faster than the Catholic Church (must be those pedophile priests that turn people from the Catholic faith) and even then according to the figures from a Christian source (can't be much more Christian than the National Council of Churches), Christianity is decreasing by at least 1% a year! Face it, we will have a secular America soon! Just like in the good old days before the Evangelitical movement! :patriot:

1 Reply

@mako cv,

mako;29347 wrote:

The only problem is that the Orthodox Church is growing much faster than the Catholic Church (must be those pedophile priests that turn people from the Catholic faith) and even then according to the figures from a Christian source (can't be much more Christian than the National Council of Churches), Christianity is decreasing by at least 1% a year! Face it, we will have a secular America soon! Just like in the good old days before the Evangelitical movement! :patriot:

Put your Star Trek tarot cards down and listen carefully: WE WILL BE, BY THE END OF THIS CENTURY, A SPANISH AMERICAN SOCIETY. Spanish America is very, very Catholic. Do the rough math.:no: :no: :no: :no: :no:

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@Pinochet73,

We might actually be a Spanish American society (probably not, but it is possible - slightly) but we will NOT be a Christian Spanish American society. You live in Texas, you should see how the younger generation of Hispanics are, very non-religious...they are just like most of the American young, very apathetic to all religion and especially to Christianity! :patriot:

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@mako cv,

mako;29354 wrote:

We might actually be a Spanish American society (probably not, but it is possible - slightly) but we will NOT be a Christian Spanish American society. You live in Texas, you should see how the younger generation of Hispanics are, very non-religious...they are just like most of the American young, very apathetic to all religion and especially to Christianity! :patriot:

There's some truth to that, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

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@Pinochet73,

LOL - you might be right at that, but then I have never been one to bet the farm on an uncertainty...:patriot:

1 Reply

Did Jesus even exist?

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