Did Jesus even exist?

I suspect being non-religious in one's adolescence is considered 'cool', and is more of a fad than true conviction. Wait until these kids gain a few more years, and start having kids. They'll be back in church, and will raise their children Christian. I'm certain of it.

Wouldn't bet the farm on that either...besides which, when an apostate of any religion decides to go back to religion, it is not usually the religion that they were raised in, but rather another religion altogether...as evidenced by the growth of paganism, Buddhism, Islam and even Deism in America and the constant shrinking of Christianity. :patriot:

Once Catholic, always Catholic.

Are you really sure about that? A little checking revealed these Catholics that are no longer Catholics!
Individuals who converted to other denominations and faiths

Anglicanism
? Madeleine Albright, former US Secretary of State
? Very Rev. Miriam Byrne, Irish Catholic nun who became a Cathedral provost in the Scottish Episcopal Church.
? Matthew Fox (priest)-Catholic priest who became an Episcopalian priest
? Henry VIII of England, created the Church of England, though it was not at the time Protestant and retained Roman Catholic beliefs
? Jim McGreevey (de facto), former Governor of New Jersey
? Most Rev. Katharine Jefferts Schori, first woman primate in the Anglican Communion
? Rt. Rev. Michael Nazir-Ali, Bishop of Rochester, raised Muslim baptised Roman Catholic at school, received into the Anglican Communion at age 20.

Atheism, agnosticism, or non-religious
This section contains people who rejected Catholicism in favor of a non-religious philosophy. In accordance with canon law, the Roman Catholic Church considers them "lapsed Catholics" rather than "ex-Catholics."
? Steve Allen, actor, TV show host, writer, pundit (Humanism)
? George Carlin, American comedian (staunch Atheist)
? Marie Curie, Nobel laureate in chemistry and physics.
? Theodore Dreiser, American writer (Socialism and possibly Christian Science)
? Janeane Garofalo, American comedienne, (Freethought advocate).
? Julia Sweeney, atheist comedian on the advisory board of the Secular Coalition for America
? Jerome Tuccille, Author of Heretic: Confessions of an Ex-Catholic Rebel

Buddhism
? Alanis Morissette, singer-songwriter
? Sting, n? Gordon Matthew Sumner, British musician/actor

Calvinism
? John Calvin, French religious reformer
? Charles Chiniquy, American anti-Catholic writer
? Ann Coulter, author who reportedly attends the Redeemer Presbyterian Church
? Tom Tancredo, U.S. Representative (CO-6), potential candidate for U.S. President in 2008, now Evangelical Presbyterian
? Dorothy Lucey, news reporter on Good Day LA, converted to a devout form of Presbyterianism
? Huub Oosterhuis, Jesuit who became a member of the Dutch Reformed Church
? Odile Stewart, younger sister of Phyllis Schlafly; became a Presbyterian
? Hugh Hewitt, law professor, author, radio talk show host, blogger; became a Presbyterian after growing up Catholic in Warren, Ohio

Christian Science
? Joan Crawford, American actress
? Doris Day, American actress
? Philip Kerr, 11th Marquess of Lothian, British Ambassador

Eastern Orthodoxy (I told you watch those Orthodoxs)
? Rod Dreher, writer who converted to Catholicism then converted to Eastern Orthodoxy.
? H. Tristram Engelhardt, Jr., philosopher and bioethicist
? Karl Matzek, artist who joined the Eastern Orthodox Church.
? John Anthony McGuckin, scholar, poet, and priest of the Romanian Orthodox Church.
? Alexis Toth, Ruthenian Catholic Church priest who converted to Orthodoxy and became a saint in the Russian Orthodox Church.
? Tom Hanks, actor who converted to the Greek Orthodox Church after marrying his wife.

Kabbalism
? Madonna, American entertainer

Islam
? Ren? Gu?non, French philosopher.
? Murad Wilfred Hofmann, diplomat.
? Diana Haddad, Singer raised in the Maronite Church.
? Ingrid Mattson, President of the Islamic Society of North America. (However, she abandoned Catholicism years before her conversion to Islam)
? Matthew Saad Muhammad, boxer.
? Peter Murphy, lead singer of Bauhaus.
? David Musa Pidcock, leads an Islamic party.
? Keith Ellison, First Muslim to serve in the United states congress
? Omar Sharif, actor and bridge player; an Egyptian Melkite Catholic who converted to Islam for marriage.

Judaism
? Abraham ben Abraham, Polish Talmudic scholar (conflicting stories though)
? Bishop Bodo, deacon
? Cameron Kerry, brother of U.S. presidential candidate John Kerry
? Anne Meara (1929 - ) American comedian and actress, partner and wife of Jerry Stiller
? Mare Winningham, American actress.
? Mary Doria Russell, American author.

Lutheranism
? Friedrich Heiler-Religious scholar in High Church Lutheranism. (Dispute about whether he truly left Catholicism)
? Martin Luther, excommunicated
? Tim Pawlenty, current Republican Governor of Minnesota

Scientology
? Tom Cruise, American actor
? Jenna Elfman, American actress
? David Miscavige, leading figure in Scientology (never very actively Catholic, converted in teenage years along with his parents)
? John Travolta, American actor, in 1975

Ra?lism
? Brigitte Boisselier, mostly known for her association with Clonaid and the Ra?lian Church, raised as a Catholic in Champagne, France, holds a doctorate in physical chemistry from the University of Dijon in France and another one in analytical chemistry from the University of Houston.
? Charles-Yvan Giroux, Ra?lian Guide of Quebec, Professor of Catechism, and ex-Roman Catholic Priest.
? Victor Legendre, Ra?lian (Regional) Guide of Eastern Quebec and ex-Roman Catholic Priest.

Seventh-Day Adventism
? Mark Finley, pastor and speaker emeritus of It Is Written (Adventist TV program)
? Mary Walsh, Adventist Bible worker
? Roger Morneau, author of "A Trip Into The Supernatural" and the "Incredible Answers To Prayer" trilogy

Other
This section lists ex-Catholics who do not fit any of the above categories. In accordance with canon law, the Roman Catholic Church considers certain of these people (those who have not converted to another religion) to be "lapsed Catholics" rather than "ex-Catholics."
? Gregorio Aglipay, Filipino priest who founded the Philippine Independent Church
? Stephen Baldwin, Actor converted to non denominational christian
? Chester Brown, Canadian cartoonist
? Fidel Castro, excommunicated (Communism is essentially his system of belief)
? Jack Clayton, British director who identified himself as an "ex-Catholic"
? Robert Crumb, X-rated American cartoonist
? Sin?ad O'Connor, excommunicated for being ordained by a schismatic Catholic church, the Palmarian Catholic Church.
? Irene Dailey, American actress who became a Unitarian
? Christopher Durang, American playwright
? Bob Enyart, Christian talk-show host, pastor of a nondenominational Christian church.
? Johannes Gossner, priest, became Protestant, probably Lutheran
? Heather Graham, American actress (Transcendental Meditation)
? Harry Hay, British-born American gay activist, founded the Radical Faeries
? Anne Jackson, American actress of Irish and Croatian extraction; married to Eli Wallach
? Bill Keller, New York Times editor who said he was a "collapsed Catholic"
? Edir Macedo, founded the Universal Church of the Kingdom of God
? Bill McCartney, Colorado-based American evangelical/conservative activist
? Emmanuel Milingo, excommunicated, former Zambian Roman Catholic archbishop.
? Rosie O'Donnell, American comedian and actress
? Conor Oberst, singer-songwriter
? Paul Provenza, Italian-American comic
? The Most Rev. Joris Vercammen, Archbishop of Utrecht, spiritual leader of the Utrecht Union of Old Catholic Churches.
? Jean-Paul Sartre, French Philosopher who abandoned the idea of God at an early age.
? Martin Scorsese, Italian-American director

These are only a few of the notables that have left the Catholic Church and for every notable, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of everyday people that have left for other belief systems or denominations. Here are some more data to back this up:

In 1965 there were 58,000 priests in the U.S.; in 2002 there were 45,000, of whom 16% come from other countries.

In 1965 there were 1,575 ordinations to the priesthood; in 2002 there were 450.

In 1965 there were 49,000 seminarians; in 2002 there were 4,700.

In 1965 there were 180,000 sisters; in 2002 there were 75,000, with an average age of 68.

In 1965 there were 1,556 Catholic high schools; in 2002 there were 786.

In 1965 there were 10,503 Catholic grade schools; in 2002 there were 6,623.

In 1958 weekly Mass attendance was 74%; in 2000 it was 25%. :patriot:

You've produced a handful of names out of a population larger than a billion folks. Ha.

You said once Catholic, always Catholic and, as I pointed out, that is not true.

A recent study by the Barna Group shows that 100,000,000 Americans are "unchurched". Of these unchurched Americans, 25% are Catholic. It is a mere small step from unchurched to unbeliever...your pedophile priests don't help the problem either. This unchurched problem combined with the slow erosion of membership (1% to2.5% a year) is spelling the death knell of Christianity in America. Gee, I wonder what will replace it - Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, Scientology, or Deism?:patriot:

Following your lead, Star Trek.:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

If Jesus was a false God, why now are many Muslims from around the world telling all who will listen that Jesus has appeared to them in dreams, and many of them now are becoming Christians. How does a false God get hard line Muslims to turn from their belief in Allah, and now they become followers of Jesus Christ. HOW DOES A FALSE GOD GET SOMEONE TO DO THAT? These stories are coming in from all over the earth.

As I said in the other thread, offer us some valid and substantiable evidence that this report is true?please no Christian websites, only valid unbiased news reporting websites. How can Jesus be the true god when you can even tell us when he was born? Luke says when Cyrenius was Governor of Syrian (6 to 9 CE) and Matthew says when Herod was King (Herod died in 4 BCE)..neither one agrees with each other and neither agrees with recorded history. :patriot:

Well according to the Hartford Institute for Religious Research which has just released the most extensive study of religion in the USA. 25% of Ex-Moslems report that dreams and visions were decisive in them finding Christ.

Star Trek.

It seems that the Hartford Institute for Religious Research is just another Christian Website?notice all of them on the council are either pastors, professors of Religion, Authors that write on Christian matters and so forth. Also notice their purposes:
Dean Hoge , Catholic University
Ihsan Bagby, University of Kentucky - Associate Professor of Islamic Studies
Allison Chisolm, Hartford Seminary Board Member
Joseph Crockett, American Bible Society
Jay Demerath, University of Massachusetts ? Sociologist that specializes in religious matters
Michele Dillion, University of New Hampshire - professor of sociology at the University of New Hampshire and author of 'Catholic Identity: Balancing Reason, Faith, and Power
Cheryl Townsend Gilkes, Colby College - an active/ordained pastor and the author of If It Wasn't for the Women...: Black Women's Experience and Womanist Culture in Church and Community.
Kate Harvey, American Baptist Churches, USA
Edwin Hernandez, University of Notre Dame ? Religious Author writing on Hispanic perspectives
Lawrence Mamiya, Vasser College ? Professor of Religion
Matthew Price, Episcopal Pension Group
Christian Scharen, Yale Divinity School
Nancy Butler, Hartford Seminary Board Member
The vision guiding this web site
This website has 3 primary purposes:
1) To present summaries of current religion research by Hartford Institute for Religion Research faculty as well as the research done by other sociologists of religion.
2) By making this research available online, we hope to educate pastors, denominational leaders, religion reporters and the general public in a better understanding of research on religion in order to help create stronger communities of faith and a more informed society.
3) Finally, we hope to assist the site's users in understanding the use of statistics and poll data, designing church web sites, on searching the web for information, and the implications of the Internet on religious life.
We want to thank our web designer Joyce Magee of Web Magik both for this design and many other great designs we use at Hartford Seminary. Funding for this venture was generously provided by a grant from Religion Division of the Lilly Endowment Inc. This web project is a joint venture of all of the faculty of the Institute. The site is administered by Scott Thumma and managed by Samantha Gonzalez.

As I said?nothing but Christian websites and since the religion started it has been a standard practice to ?Lie for God?, starting with Eusebius onward?:patriot:

And if CNN was reporting such news who would they go to? Chances are the same. And if you believe that all the different Christian religions from all over the earth have now got together to fabricate such stories then you would really have to be big on conspiracies. It should be obvious, that Islamics will not be reporting this, and most news outlets will not be embracing such stories either. I have been around Christians all of my life, and to believe so many main line religions are out there now makeing up lies would be ridiculous. There are to many of these people that have reached their positions because of their strong character and honesty. To believe they would risk throwing all of that away on fabricated stories would be laughable.
I don't believe in lieing for God, and I have my own stories which are even more remarkable than these.

The same places that historians and intelligence operatives go to ? multiple sources! In the case of CNN (now I am postulating based on prior experience), they would probably go to Christian sources, Islamic sources, unbiased sources such as Massad (Israeli Intelligence Agency who take much interest in all things that affect the Muslims), M15 of the British, American CIA (all of which monitor that area closely) for any information that can be released and last of all Arabic and Israeli TV and Radio news reporters. They WOULD NOT take the unsubstantiated word of the Christian sources alone! Christianity has a long and well known history of lying for their god!


I guess then that the various Christian denominational papers that discuss the slow erosion of membership is unusual in the religious world ? NOT! The Muslims would be discussing it quite emotionally and the world would instantly know about it because the various news outlet, ever in search of titillating material to feed the public for fun and profit, would be broadcasting it worldwide before the concave of Imams broke for lunch!


Looking at the history of Christianity gives lie to that statement ? Eusebius, Augustine, Leo, Luther, Calvin, Baker all advocated lying for God, stretching the truth to make the religion look good. A master thief in a society of thieves reaches high positions within that society and a master liar in a society of liars would reach high positions with that society?get my drift?


Good for you, but then there are always exceptions to the rule. :patriot: