Wouldn't Hell be the Heaven for "Wrong Do'ers"?

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This concept that people will burn in hell forever doesn't quite sit right to me.

Ok so we have God and he has heaven, and everything there is nice and pretty and that is where all the good people go and that is what they would like. Keep in mind God doesn't like the Devil and the Devil doesn't like God.

Now we have the Devil and Hell and everything there isn't nice and pretty and that is where all the bad people go to die a long burning death. But here is the problem why would the Devil who doesn't like God help God in burning those people forever? It would seem to me the Devil would want the bad people to help his "army" and to get back at God.

So my thought is Hell is the place where chaos and everything goes happens. Does this make it a "bad" place, probably but I know a bunch of people who would love it there.

Anyways. There it is.

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@rex b,

rex_b;3970 wrote:

This concept that people will burn in hell forever doesn't quite sit right to me.

Ok so we have God and he has heaven, and everything there is nice and pretty and that is where all the good people go and that is what they would like. Keep in mind God doesn't like the Devil and the Devil doesn't like God.

Now we have the Devil and Hell and everything there isn't nice and pretty and that is where all the bad people go to die a long burning death. But here is the problem why would the Devil who doesn't like God help God in burning those people forever? It would seem to me the Devil would want the bad people to help his "army" and to get back at God.

So my thought is Hell is the place where chaos and everything goes happens. Does this make it a "bad" place, probably but I know a bunch of people who would love it there.

Anyways. There it is.

How about that. I never thought about it like that. Looks like the Church today is using Hell as a scare tactic... nah Wink

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@Brent cv,

Judging by the Bible's picture of Hell, it's far worse than we could imagine. Eternal darkness, torment, and death aren't desirable, no matter who you are. Satan's not in charge of Hell though, he just resides in it like the rest of the unforgiven.

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@jatuab,

jatuab;3980 wrote:

Judging by the Bible's picture of Hell, it's far worse than we could imagine. Eternal darkness, torment, and death aren't desirable, no matter who you are. Satan's not in charge of Hell though, he just resides in it like the rest of the unforgiven.

So God is in charge of hell too and Satan is just the PR guy?

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@Brent cv,

Brent;3989 wrote:

So God is in charge of hell too and Satan is just the PR guy?

Satan was a proud angel that tried to take over Heaven. You could say He's the poster child of Hell and its residents.

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@rex b,

Weird weird thoughts.

Very interesting though...

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@rex b,

rex_b;3970 wrote:

This concept that people will burn in hell forever doesn't quite sit right to me.

Ok so we have God and he has heaven, and everything there is nice and pretty and that is where all the good people go and that is what they would like. Keep in mind God doesn't like the Devil and the Devil doesn't like God.

Now we have the Devil and Hell and everything there isn't nice and pretty and that is where all the bad people go to die a long burning death. But here is the problem why would the Devil who doesn't like God help God in burning those people forever? It would seem to me the Devil would want the bad people to help his "army" and to get back at God.

So my thought is Hell is the place where chaos and everything goes happens. Does this make it a "bad" place, probably but I know a bunch of people who would love it there.

Anyways. There it is.

there is a difference in the Christian perspective and the Muslim perspective..

lemme tell you the Muslim perspective..

======================

God has created 3 intelligent life forms that we know about:

Humans- inhabitants of Earth, who have freewill to choose right and wrong.
Jinns- inhabitants of a different dimension who cannot be seen by humans who also have freewill
Angel- inhabitants of paradise who do not have freewill
======================

Iblis was a Jinn, a creature made of smokeless fire by God . In an outburst rooted in envy, Iblis disobeyed Allah and was expelled from the grace of Allah. He was later sent to earth along with Adam and Eve after having lured them into eating fruit from the forbidden tree, although in this role he is always referred to as ash-Shaitan (Satan). He was condemned consequently by God to Hell. He replied with saying that he wanted to bring the inhabitants of Earth down with him, and God, to test Mankind and Jinn, allowed him to roam Earth to attempt to misguide others.

He tempts humans through his whisper (waswas, "he whispered") of sinful ideas in their head and false suggestion (haiif). In the end, it is believed, he will be cast into Jahannam (Hell in Islam) along with those who give in to his temptation of sinful ideas and disobeyed God's true message to mankind (Islam), while those who successfully try to follow a righteous path will be rewarded with the pleasures of Jannah (Paradise or Heaven in Islam).

The Qur'an does not depict Shaitan as the enemy of Allah, for Allah is supreme over all his creations and Iblis is just one of his creations. Unlike the Zoroastrian beliefs, all good and bad deeds are from Allah himself and only he can save humanity from the evils of his universe and his creations. Shaitan's single enemy is humanity. He intends to discourage humans from obeying God. Thus, humankind is warned to struggle against the mischiefs of the Shaitan and temptations he puts them in. A commonly shared belief in both Islam and Christianity is that the universal existence of evil in personal lives is usually experienced because of the devil.

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@al islam,

al_islam;4456 wrote:

there is a difference in the Christian perspective and the Muslim perspective..

lemme tell you the Muslim perspective.

Thank you for joining , and thank you for bringing a reasonable perspective to our discussions .
It is refreshing to hear a Muslim speak out without screaming death and annihilation to all ideas contrary to his own . There should be room in this world for all beliefs when tolerant of other's beliefs .

I ask you this - do you believe Christians will go to Heaven ( the one Christians believe in ) ?
I have had discussions with Muslims who agree and some who insist there is NO HEAVEN but Jannh , and none but Muslims will ever attain any heaven .

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@rex b,

Too many "hollywood" and simplistic views on what hell is like. An easy way to see hell is to imagine a place where there is NO God. That's all there is to Hell. Oh, by the way your mother-in-law is in charge.

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@rex b,

That is a very good point.

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@rex b,

Im not trying to get into a debate over God or Jesus.. just relating what I went through at one point.
Im not one to have delusions or visions, nuttin like that. Im just a lil ol baptist boy.
This may sound a bit strange but at a low point in my life I was awakened one night by a horrendous nightmare that I was separated from any part of God, Jesus. He had left me on my own, forgotten me etc...I had basically denied him and went on my "merry" way for quite awhile beforehand, heck I was just plain mad at him for stuff that had happened. I think he decided to teach me a lesson.

The emptiness and horror that I awakened with is something I never want to deal with again. It took me several months before I could get back to normal and stop being petrified.
Yeah it was strange and I thought I was cracking up. I dont concider myself any kinda prophet, preacher or nuttin like that. The only thing that saved me from thinking I was losin it was a friend who came to me several months later and related the same exact experience. He also was petrified.

I dont know but from the night it started I thought "Hell must be a lot like this."

If its even a small percentage of the stuff I felt, I dont want any part of it.

If you want to know what Hell is like. Maybe you could ask him to show you a bit of it like he did me. Oh.. and have a Bible nearby, your gonna want it.lol

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@rex b,

[FONT="Verdana"][/FONT]

An interesting question. This question brings to mind the nature of evil itself. The way I see it there are 2 kinds of evil:
1) A person who struggles with being good and evil. This person genuinly has good intentions but is human and like every other human has succumbed to selfish temptation.
2) Someone who has become evil to the point of of no return. They are mentally and emotionally unbalanced and seek to inflict evil on others.

While it would seem that Hell would be an ideal place for someone like good ol' #2, evil does not come without its price. To me an evil person is not someone who is "happy", in fact they are quite the opposite. The more evil someone becomes the more they die inside. And no amount of evil can ever fulfill the heart. While they may appear pleased and even extatic on the outside, thye wither away and die on the inside.

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@rex b,

welcome CMoney.

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@rex b,

rex_b;3970 wrote:

This concept that people will burn in hell forever doesn't quite sit right to me.

Ok so we have God and he has heaven, and everything there is nice and pretty and that is where all the good people go and that is what they would like. Keep in mind God doesn't like the Devil and the Devil doesn't like God.

Now we have the Devil and Hell and everything there isn't nice and pretty and that is where all the bad people go to die a long burning death. But here is the problem why would the Devil who doesn't like God help God in burning those people forever? It would seem to me the Devil would want the bad people to help his "army" and to get back at God.

So my thought is Hell is the place where chaos and everything goes happens. Does this make it a "bad" place, probably but I know a bunch of people who would love it there.

Anyways. There it is.

Well.. Hell aint a purty thought is it?
You hit it right on the head. Thats Exactly what Satan wants, To seperate people from God and bring them into hell. The problem is that Satan is a liar and a deceiver. Satan can offer you lots of things that sound wonderful, fun and exciting but will only lead you to his ultimate goal, death and torment.

John 8:44 "He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

So, anyone who thinks its going to be drinking beer all day and orgies all night is sadly mistaken. Its eternal seperation from God, the same way they wanted it on Earth. They will simply get what they wanted while alive, seperation from God.

Now For God. He has no desire for anyone to go to hell. The verse you can always go back to when you don't understand whats going on in life is the one almost everyone has heard at one time or another. It is His greatest promise.

John3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Verse17 "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

"For God so loved the world".. that means everyone, from Billy Graham to Adolf Hitler, he loves us all, no matter how bad we may be.

"Whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" That also means all of us.

Anyway.. Not looking for a debate, thats just my take on it.

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@Curmudgeon,

Curmudgeon;4460 wrote:

Thank you for joining , and thank you for bringing a reasonable perspective to our discussions .
It is refreshing to hear a Muslim speak out without screaming death and annihilation to all ideas contrary to his own . There should be room in this world for all beliefs when tolerant of other's beliefs .

I ask you this - do you believe Christians will go to Heaven ( the one Christians believe in ) ?
I have had discussions with Muslims who agree and some who insist there is NO HEAVEN but Jannh , and none but Muslims will ever attain any heaven .

[SIZE="5"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Hi, just to answer your question. Islam has not always been around, and you would ask that if only Muslims will go to heaven/ junnah what about the rest of the people before Islam. Well here is how it is. From the day of Adam and Eve the message of Allah/god has been passed down and they all get a fair chance because at the time that is the true religion, like Ibrahim's/Abraham's time etc. and in total all has sent down over 120,000 messengers Notable messengers include Adam/Ahdum (allay salaam), Noah/Nooh( allay salaam), Abraham Ibrahim(allay salaam), Moses/Musa(allay salaam), Jesus/Esa(allay salaam), and Muhammad(S.A.W) ,
Basicly for every nation. At one time judaism was the correct religion etc.
Muhammed ( s.a.w) was the last messenger, and there will be no more messengers after him, And he was apointed with Islam ( we believe, the current true faith) and the Quran. (Muslims believe. Allah says that the Torah and the bible were changed and people use to take out the hard to follow bit and leave the good bits/changes it ).
All that being said and done you still want to know whether other faiths will go to heaven/jinnah. You can not go to the gates of paradise unless you have testified(shahada): La illlaha illallah "There is no but Allah" Muhammed dur rasululullah "and Muhammed is his messenger" in other words become a Muslim. ( i m talking a bout the current time). And even then it is extremely hard to get in to. Out of a 1000 people 1 will go to heaven and the 999 will go to hell.(including Muslims) But we also believe that even though a lot of Muslims will go to hell( because of their bad deeds/sins) at some stage they will get out. but Hell is an extremely bad place and that 1 day in hell lasts more than a year.

thank you for reading. i hope this has answered your question and i hope no one got offended.
if you would like to ask any further questions you are welcome:peace: [/FONT][/SIZE]

1 Reply

@rex b,

No offence here, good post.

Quote:

At one time judaism was the correct religion etc.

What changed it?

Quote:

Muhammed ( s.a.w) was the last messenger, and there will be no more messengers after him,

Quote:

"There is no but Allah"
and Muhammed is his messenger"

What of the other messingers before and after Muhammed?

Quote:

But we also believe that even though a lot of Muslims will go to hell( because of their bad deeds/sins) at some stage they will get out.

Are terrorists in this group, do you consider them evil doers?

1 Reply

@rex b,

" You can not go to the gates of paradise unless you have testified(shahada): La illlaha illallah "There is no but Allah" Muhammed dur rasululullah "and Muhammed is his messenger" in other words become a Muslim. "

That is the way some Muslims have expressed the chances of a non-Muslim getting to heaven , when i have had this discussion with them face-to-face . Some have expressed a little hope that non-Muslims might achieve heaven through their own faith , but these have been few and far between .
I am intersted in the reasoning behind this attitude . Would not the Muslim faith recognize another idea of heaven ? ( I don't know the answer , I am curious )

2 Replies

@Drnaline,

Drnaline;8300 wrote:

No offence here, good post.

What changed it?

What of the other messengers before and after Muhammed?

Are terrorists in this group, do you consider them evil doers?

1 Reply

@Curmudgeon,

Curmudgeon;8305 wrote:

" Would not the Muslim faith recognize another idea of heaven ? ( I don't know the answer , I am curious )

Hello,
Well, we believe that Islam was sent by Allah/God and a human could not have made up this religion. So what ever is said in the Quran we believe( the words of Allah/God). Islam is not only a religion its a way of life. To read the rest click: More than a Garden; Submitters Perspective August 1996 English - Submission.org

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@rex b,

Chaos, torment, never-ending death... Earth.

A fave band of mine, the wonderful Wilco, has a song called "Hell Is Chrome"
that offers a view of hell as institutional, like a well-kept prison or sanitary
hospital or government building or mental asylum, completely sterile, cold and
impersonal, quiet, boring, predictable, professional... the kind of place that would
drive the human mind insane to be captive in for even a short period of time.

That would be hell, and heaven would be the kind of environment that humans
flourish in: full of adversity and hardship and challenges, unpredictable, a mess
to be cleaned up and made into something personal, an environment that
changed between extremes. That's what makes human happy, so that would
be heaven.

The thing is, the guy who wrote the song came up with it after a visit to his
shrink (he's a long sufferer of panic attacks) who explained to him that his
problems result from his stubborn attempt to force order upon the world and
control it, which is the driving force behind most mental problems. Looking at
the world and how others can react to it, he decided the concepts of heaven
and hell were possible reversed, and imagined the devil appealing to him to
go to hell, because it's the place he longs for, where nothing is allowed to
happen, where no one has free-will.

I believe in neither. I believe human life... intelligent disearning life, exists solely
in the brain, and at the end of one's life the brain unleashes all of the
chemical and electrical impulses it has stored, and one lives seemingly forever
in a rush of memories. The things one has tried hardest to suppress, the
"bad" things or regrets, since they've been accessed by the brain fewer times
have a more potent charge, and this can be hell if you've been an awful person.
A hell very much of your own making, and one that is your eternity.

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Wouldn't Hell be the Heaven for "Wrong Do'ers"?

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