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Is Kindness Wiser Than Truth?

 
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2010 01:11 pm
@electronicmail,
Yeah, I need some wine when I read it, too. I like it Smile
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2010 01:12 pm
@Mame,
Cheers! Laughing Drunk Drunk Drunk
0 Replies
 
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 03:26 pm
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:

stevecook172001 wrote:
Folks are missing the fact that a lot of human communication is a form of mutual grooming. It's just that human grooming does not involve picking ticks out of each others fur.

Good one and a great metaphor.

From what I've observed, many seem to feel that empathetic gestures are soft, timid, without pride and contemptibly timid. What a horrible way to look at it.

Pride? Arrogance? Insecurity? who knows...



Yeah it is a show of manufactured timidity, or rather a demonstration of recognition of personal space and wellbeing. For example the Euro-American handshake originated right hand no so much because most people naturally shake with their right hands, but because most people would naturally use a weapon with their right hands and an extended empty hand meant no weapon.
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  3  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 07:26 pm
@Dosed,
Dosed wrote:

What do you think?

I recently had an experience where I asked someone to be brutally honest with me, and when I received that honesty, my thoughts were "ouch, that really hurt...did I really want that?"

As much as I'd love to believe the idea that "sometimes kindness is wiser than truth," I still feel that truth is to be valued above everything else. That way there are no blinders to reality in the face of emotion.

So I ask you, what do you think?


If the question asks whether it is wiser to not to be truthful, in order to be kind, than to be "brutally honest" then the answer must be, it depends. It depends on the circumstances, and on the person. So, sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't. We can all think of circumstances in which one is wiser, and other circumstances in which the other is better. And even circumstances in which truth can be tempered with kindness. So, the answer is, sometimes it is, and sometimes it is not. But what else would you expect the answer to be?
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 08:52 pm
@Dosed,
Give man a fish ..and you are kind
..teach man how to fish ..and you are kinder!
north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 09:01 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer wrote:

Give man a fish ..and you are kind
..teach man how to fish ..and you are kinder!


but to teach man how to fish is one thing

now teach the man the consequences of over-fishing , is another
north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 09:57 pm
@north,
north wrote:

HexHammer wrote:

Give man a fish ..and you are kind
..teach man how to fish ..and you are kinder!


but to teach man how to fish is one thing

now teach the man the consequences of over-fishing , is another


which is a truth and therefore wise
Sentience
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 10:52 pm
@north,
It's truth and kindness. They are not mutually exclusive. If he might over-fish himself into starvation, it would not only be a kind thing for you to do, but a moral obligation.
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2010 02:59 am
What I don't understand is what this fishing example has to do with whether it is better to tell someone the truth, or ,in the interest of being kind, refrain from doing so. Can someone explain to me what the fishing example has to do with that? What would we be telling someone, or not telling someone, either by teaching him to fish or not doing so? I am missing the connection.
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2010 03:19 am
@Dosed,
Dosed wrote:

What do you think?

I recently had an experience where I asked someone to be brutally honest with me, and when I received that honesty, my thoughts were "ouch, that really hurt...did I really want that?"

As much as I'd love to believe the idea that "sometimes kindness is wiser than truth," I still feel that truth is to be valued above everything else. That way there are no blinders to reality in the face of emotion.

So I ask you, what do you think?


What the hell is this crap? Kindness?
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2010 03:41 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy wrote:

What I don't understand is what this fishing example has to do with whether it is better to tell someone the truth, or ,in the interest of being kind, refrain from doing so. Can someone explain to me what the fishing example has to do with that? What would we be telling someone, or not telling someone, either by teaching him to fish or not doing so? I am missing the connection.
KA ur right, I have totally misunderstood the topic at hand, I'v only skimmed through it.

Please allow me to repharse my answer.

No, being brutally honest for the sake of honesty, leads only to grief and sorrow, only in very importaint and critical situations, brutal honesty can be extremely importaint.

If someone with a big ugly nose got told by everybody he met "what a big ugly nose you got!", then he probaly would go slightly insane of grief and sorrow.
Mame
 
  0  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2010 04:42 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer wrote:


No, being brutally honest for the sake of honesty, leads only to grief and sorrow, only in very importaint and critical situations, brutal honesty can be extremely importaint.

If someone with a big ugly nose got told by everybody he met "what a big ugly nose you got!", then he probaly would go slightly insane of grief and sorrow.


First of all, why would everybody he meet tell him what he already knows about his nose? It's not like he's asking; it would be purely gratuitous and redundant, so that's not even a good example. A better example would be, "Do you think I was out of line when I said such-and such to Jane?" Then you could give your opinion.

But it's not what you say so much as how you say it. You could say, "Yes, you were a complete dickhead, rude and obnoxious." Or you could say, "Well, you might have phrased things a bit differently." You're still giving your opinion, but in a more palatable, kinder way.

Secondly, I doubt very much that a person with a large, ugly nose is unaware of it and thus is not likely to "go slightly insane of grief and sorrow" - lol. That truly is laughable, I'm sorry! Grief and sorrow? Come on!

Thirdly, you say: "being brutally honest for the sake of honesty, leads only to grief and sorrow" - not true at all. No. It might be inspirational. "Do I have a fat ass?" "Well, actually, it is larger than it used to be." could maybe inspire someone to get on a treadmill and watch their diet.

You seem to be a person who likes to talk in extremes, HH. Not everything is that black and white.
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2010 04:54 am
@Mame,
You should get out a bit more, and see what real life really is like.
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2010 04:57 am
@HexHammer,
Really? What is real life really like? All doom and gloom, as the way you see it? People running around saying unkind things to each other? Everybody on tenterhooks in case they hear some horrible brutal honesty about themselves?
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2010 06:41 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer wrote:

kennethamy wrote:

What I don't understand is what this fishing example has to do with whether it is better to tell someone the truth, or ,in the interest of being kind, refrain from doing so. Can someone explain to me what the fishing example has to do with that? What would we be telling someone, or not telling someone, either by teaching him to fish or not doing so? I am missing the connection.
KA ur right, I have totally misunderstood the topic at hand, I'v only skimmed through it.

Please allow me to repharse my answer.

No, being brutally honest for the sake of honesty, leads only to grief and sorrow, only in very importaint and critical situations, brutal honesty can be extremely importaint.

If someone with a big ugly nose got told by everybody he met "what a big ugly nose you got!", then he probaly would go slightly insane of grief and sorrow.


But no one is obliged to tell anyone he has a big ugly nose. Why would anyone do so. That is not honesty, since you would have missed the glorious opportunity of remaining silent. It would be gratuitous cruelty. I expect many people talk when they don't have to.

It is generally expected that when a post is answer, that the answerer knows what it is about.
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2010 03:46 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy wrote:

HexHammer wrote:

kennethamy wrote:

What I don't understand is what this fishing example has to do with whether it is better to tell someone the truth, or ,in the interest of being kind, refrain from doing so. Can someone explain to me what the fishing example has to do with that? What would we be telling someone, or not telling someone, either by teaching him to fish or not doing so? I am missing the connection.
KA ur right, I have totally misunderstood the topic at hand, I'v only skimmed through it.

Please allow me to repharse my answer.

No, being brutally honest for the sake of honesty, leads only to grief and sorrow, only in very importaint and critical situations, brutal honesty can be extremely importaint.

If someone with a big ugly nose got told by everybody he met "what a big ugly nose you got!", then he probaly would go slightly insane of grief and sorrow.


But no one is obliged to tell anyone he has a big ugly nose. Why would anyone do so. That is not honesty, since you would have missed the glorious opportunity of remaining silent. It would be gratuitous cruelty. I expect many people talk when they don't have to.

It is generally expected that when a post is answer, that the answerer knows what it is about.
There is this basic thing, school yard bullies, who come and take your lunch money, and other kids may tease and mock you, for no aparent reason.

KA in what reality did you live?
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jul, 2010 04:24 pm
Hamlet:
I do repent; but heaven hath pleas'd it so
To punish me with this, and this with me,
That I must be their scourge and minister.
I will bestow him, and will answer well
The death I gave him. So again good night.
I must be cruel only to be kind.
Thus bad begins and worse remains behind.
Hamlet Act 3, scene 4, 173–179

As the line from Shakespeare's Hamlet points out, sometime the kindest thing (in the long run) is to be cruel (in the short run). Sometimes people need to be told the truth for their own good, and it is a fake kindness to withhold the truth from them to spare their feeling. And then, related but different, is the saying that compassion for those who do not deserve compassion, inevitably results in cruelty to those who deserve compassion. A stellar illustration of this was the "compassionate" release by Scottish authorities of the Libyan terrorist Lockerbie bomber who murdered over two hundred innocent people. Were the Scots who released that murderer compassionate to the families of his victims?
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jul, 2010 04:35 pm
You asked Is Kindness WISER than Truth, and I don't think that's been addressed. What's Wise? Define it for me as you mean it. So far, we've addressing Is Kindness Better than Truth...

and not all truths are brutal, by the way. Some truths are nice.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jul, 2010 04:44 pm
@Mame,
Mame wrote:

You asked Is Kindness WISER than Truth, and I don't think that's been addressed. What's Wise? Define it for me as you mean it. So far, we've addressing Is Kindness Better than Truth...

and not all truths are brutal, by the way. Some truths are nice.


I imagine that the poster meant to ask whether it is better to tell others the truth about themselves that to deceive them. If he did not mean that, then what did he mean? And, of course, some truths are very nice. But that is irrelevant, since the question (as interpreted) asks whether even if the truth is unkind (cruel) it should be told. It does not talk about kind truths at all. From the premise that some unkind truths should not be told, nothing follows about whether or not kind truths should be told.
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jul, 2010 04:51 pm
@kennethamy,
What has "is it better to tell them" got to do with 'wise'?
 

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