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Is Kindness Wiser Than Truth?

 
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 03:20 pm
@stevecook172001,
Hi Steve!

I have an oustanding social life - I have you guys!

Best wishes!
mark...
0 Replies
 
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 03:22 pm
@Dosed,
Dosed wrote:

As much as I'd love to believe the idea that "sometimes kindness is wiser than truth," I still feel that truth is to be valued above everything else. That way there are no blinders to reality in the face of emotion.

So I ask you, what do you think?

Indeed!

Kindness and truth is a line that must be traversed wisely. Truth is paramount to both our own personal honor and for the respect which we'd want from others. But even the harshest truths needn't be bereft of kindness, sympathy - and most certainly: Empathy.

Whomever asks for the 'brutal truth' from me gets it; both barrels. But once again, such needn't be applied with a mean spirit. Even the smallest touch of compassion can impart not only the naked truth they're seeking, but do so infused with the intelligent caring of the truth sayer.

Thanks
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 03:45 pm
@Khethil,
Hi Khethil!

Absolutely!

Kind regards.
Mark...
0 Replies
 
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 04:01 pm
@mark noble,
The point I'm trying to make about common politeness is that it is not trivial, it just isn't what the semantic load of the actual words used would imply that it is.
stevecook172001
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 04:31 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:

The point I'm trying to make about common politeness is that it is not trivial, it just isn't what the semantic load of the actual words used would imply that it is.

Absolutely

Indeed I would go further and assert that the semantic load is only of value in content critical interactions such as technical or gneral intellectual.

Folks are missing the fact that a lot of human communication is a form of mutual grooming. It's just that human grooming does not involve picking ticks out of each others fur.
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 07:23 pm
@stevecook172001,
stevecook172001 wrote:
Folks are missing the fact that a lot of human communication is a form of mutual grooming. It's just that human grooming does not involve picking ticks out of each others fur.

Good one and a great metaphor.

From what I've observed, many seem to feel that empathetic gestures are soft, timid, without pride and contemptibly timid. What a horrible way to look at it.

Pride? Arrogance? Insecurity? who knows...
north
 
  0  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 08:32 pm

some people can't handle the truth , actually , most can't

thats the problem nowadays , not only the politions are " politically correct " so has become soceity

so therefore society lacks growth personally

kindness is not wiser than truth
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 09:11 pm
@north,
What I don't think people are doing is making a distinction between truth and honest opinion. Some people cant handle truth or honest opinion, and yet just because you may not be lying about your opinion does not make your honest opinion the truth. You are putting a heck of a lot of faith in the validity and value of your own opinion to claim that hurting other people with it is better than not expressing it.

If someone is really asking for an honest opinion and not just following ego stroking protocols then they should be prepared for whatever the other person says. Otherwise maxims like "if you don't have something good to say don't say anything at all" could apply.
north
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 09:26 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:

What I don't think people are doing is making a distinction between truth and honest opinion. Some people cant handle truth or honest opinion, and yet just because you may not be lying about your opinion does not make your honest opinion the truth. You are putting a heck of a lot of faith in the validity and value of your own opinion to claim that hurting other people with it is better than not expressing it.


true

but the thing is , without expressing the truth , which is not about opinion , really

then that person does not or could not otherwise understand the truth

its about attitude when presenting the truth though , one does not have to be harsh , but calm and and straight forward


GoshisDead
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 09:48 pm
@north,
I'm down with that. So by all means disabuse someone of their belief that 1+1=3. But when the question is something like. Do you think I drove my significant other off by being too (X). Tread lightly because the truth in a situation like that is not-discernable without a lot more information than you are likely to have, all you can give is your honest opinion, and your honest opinion will possibly do more harm than good.
north
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 10:02 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:

I'm down with that. So by all means disabuse someone of their belief that 1+1=3. But when the question is something like. Do you think I drove my significant other off by being too (X). Tread lightly because the truth in a situation like that is not-discernable without a lot more information than you are likely to have, all you can give is your honest opinion, and your honest opinion will possibly do more harm than good.


can you be truthful to yourself ?
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 10:10 pm
@north,
I can (not lie) to myself, just as I can (not lie) to others. However polite adherence to the socio-linguistic frame schemas as i noted several times already is not lying to others or myself. The information transfered is contained in the framework not the semantic load.
north
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 10:13 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:

I can (not lie) to myself, just as I can (not lie) to others. However polite adherence to the socio-linguistic frame schemas as i noted several times already is not lying to others or myself. The information transfered is contained in the framework not the semantic load.


therefore then any truth that I say to you , about you , should be already evident to you
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 10:47 pm
@north,
yes because you tell me things like when and where i was born, how much i weight etc... if you knew them, but cooroborative facts about someone is not what the OP is talking about.
0 Replies
 
melonkali
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 02:59 pm
@Dosed,
Dosed wrote:

Our responsibility is not to protect people's feelings. Once we deliver the truth, it is out of our hands. How this person perceives what we say is not our fault. It is only our responsibility to be as clear as possible and to communicate what we mean. Unfortunately, in being "kind" we actually are being cruel.

Think of a time when your friend was hurting. What did you say? "Don't worry. Everything is going to be okay."

um...no it isn't. Your friends feels shitty right now, because they are in a shitty circumstance. Why sugar coat it? Why be so cruel in your kindness JUST to make someone feel better? They should feel what they feel because of the truth, not because what's kind is what's comfortable.

why do we think we're responsible for anything other than giving truth?


Agreed -- when you're feeling down in the dumps, I don't know which is the most offensive response, "Don't worry, everything will be OK", or "I'll be praying for you." Neither response addresses "why" you're feeling down or what realistic good options you may have, if any. There was a time when I was "down" with no immediate good options in sight -- the best advice I received then was "make yourself keep busy while time heals the wound".

rebecca
0 Replies
 
GoshisDead
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2010 11:08 am
See what honesty got Abe.

Dosed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2010 11:12 am
@GoshisDead,
hah! I saw this commercial the other day and thought of this.

Thanks for the laughs.
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2010 11:24 am
@Dosed,
They are one of the few companies that make me think I would have liked a career in advertising.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2010 11:31 am
@Dosed,
Dosed wrote:

Our responsibility is not to protect people's feelings. Once we deliver the truth, it is out of our hands. How this person perceives what we say is not our fault. It is only our responsibility to be as clear as possible and to communicate what we mean. Unfortunately, in being "kind" we actually are being cruel.

Who decides what our responsibility is or isn't? Maybe YOU think it's to be as clear as possible, but maybe Jane thinks it's to be kind. The person she's being kind to may really need that at the moment and may get their truth from others. Do you really need it from everyone? Won't there be as many truths as there are people?

Think of a time when your friend was hurting. What did you say? "Don't worry. Everything is going to be okay."

um...no it isn't. Your friends feels shitty right now, because they are in a shitty circumstance. Why sugar coat it? Why be so cruel in your kindness JUST to make someone feel better? They should feel what they feel because of the truth, not because what's kind is what's comfortable.

It's a platitude... and depending on what the situation is, it might be appropriate.

What is with this "they should" stuff? Who says we should anything? I don't believe in shoulds. Why be so cruel in your kindness? Why is kindness cruel and truth not? Maybe your kindness wasn't JUST to make someone feel better. You're assuming a lot. If you're speaking of yourself and your own behaviour, fine, but please don't ascribe all this to me. That is not how I operate.


why do we think we're responsible for anything other than giving truth?

I don't think I'm responsible for anything at all other than what I decide to be responsible for, and that may be kindness or truth, but I don't even think "responsibility" enters into it. Anything I say is a choice I make and sometimes I make none at all. Me giving someone truth is a gift, and is done when I know them, at my discretion.
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2010 01:10 pm
@Mame,
That's a very funny post. There's the confused quotation box followed by a signature that reads
Quote:
Signature Always be sincere, even if you don't mean it.
Maybe if I down a couple of whiskies I'll get it Drunk Laughing
 

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