@Fido,
Fido wrote:
kennethamy wrote:
I see that this thread has disappeared into the fog of philosophese where there is only groping and no sensible discussion. And, thus illustrates so well what the thread was all about. since fog consists of very thick clouds. However I did discern, through all the fog, something I could understand and even agree with, namely that a fact is true whether or not it is known. Of course, all facts are true, since unless it were true, it would not be a fact (so "all facts are true" is just a tautology). However, what is of much more substance is that a proposition is true whether or not it is known (or for that matter, believed) to be true. And, as I pointed out, although whatever is known to be true is (of course) true, whatever is true need not be known. The fallacious inference from whatever is known is true, to whatever is true is known, is central to Idealism.
The fog, groping and no sensible discussion are all on your end... Your pointless reductionism of truth and every other moral form leads no where... Yes, facts are true is tautology, but facts are knowledge, which you earlier disagreed with...Knowledge as yet unknown is not truth, but ignorance, and no one would consider ignorance knowledge except a republican...There is a whole class of knowledge, like genetic knowledge, or knowledge of which one is unconscious of having that must be true or it would not be knowledge, and would be detrimental to survival...But if some fact is totally unknown it cannot be considered knowledge or truth... IN fact, truth is a certain relationship between ourselves and our reality... It is our concepts which are true, or our statements that are true, or our conclusions based upon facts which are true... The truth is a dynamic quality in the relationship between man and his environment whether that be social or physical... Truth is life... Our survival depends upon our knowledge, and knowledge is truth...
There are two senses of the term, "fact". One is a metaphysical sense in which it just is a synonym for "a truth". And, of course, in this sense, all facts are true since all truths are true. That is a tautology. Now, on the other hand, there is an epistemological sense of "fact" in which "fact" means not only a truth, but a known truth. And since all known truth are known (another tautology) in that sense of "fact", all facts have to be known. So, with this clarification, we see that you are confusing two senses of the word "fact", one by which facts need not be known, and a different sense in which facts need be known. Now, in the sense of "fact" in which "fact" simply means "a truth" it is fallacious to infer from the proposition, X is a fact to the conclusion that X is known.
As so often is true, philosophical problems are the consequence of confusion. Once that confusion is removed, the problem simply disappears. Confusions in philosophy are like boils. Once the boil is pricked, and the pus runs out, the boil is no longer there to bother you.
