4
   

Oz Election Thread #4 - Gillard's Labor

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 07:26 am
@hingehead,
Quote:
Based on this week's performance, Tony Abbott still sits with the long list of low achievers.

His populist, contradictory, rhetorical and shallow analysis of the budget has been matched only by the shadow treasurer, Joe Hockey.

For months, both have demanded deep cuts to the budget. But when the government made a modest attempt to prune welfare, they described it as war on the middle classes.

This was not the time to hurt Australians, Joe Hockey protested.

How on earth can you be fiscally tough, and make the necessary cuts, without hurting someone?


Indeed.
Spot on, Barrie.
What amazes me is that Abbott & Hockey so easily get away with these sorts of shallow, inept statements.
Why don't political commentators challenge them more?

0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 08:02 am
Last night's Clarke & Dawe.

Quote:
Australian Broadcasting Corporation

Broadcast: 12/05/2011

John Clarke and Dawe on asylum seekers


http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2011/s3215487.htm
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 07:23 pm
@msolga,
Chris Uhlmann's take on the fallout from Labor's budget :

Minority government: stick together or perish alone:

Quote:
.... A cartoon and a 100-point headline on the front of a tabloid can trash hundreds of thousands of words. Something like "You're too rich".

Any budget has to be seen in context and the inescapable circumstance of this one is minority government.

In that context, this is a good budget. The media cannot spend years demanding a halt in middle-class and industry welfare and then recoil in horror when something is done. Frankly, some of the hysteria that has followed the mild trimming of benefits has been breathtaking. What we should really be focusing on is why this country has developed a handout mentality.

Chris Richardson from Deloitte Access Economics has led the charge against this kind of spending and, while he willed the Government cut harder, he noted that what it did do was of good quality.

In the current political environment, that is an achievement. Because Opposition Leader Tony Abbott could not have been clearer in his budget reply, the sole point of everything the Coalition does is to force an early election.

That is his right but it is a gamble. Mr Abbott sees a government on the ropes and is convinced that if he keeps punching it must fall. But if this fight goes the distance he risks punching himself out well short of election day. This pitch probably can't be sustained and his flaws will show with time.

That is what Julia Gillard is betting on. .......



http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/05/13/3216097.htm
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 07:28 pm
@msolga,
However, in the meantime ....

Quote:
Post-budget boost for Abbott in polls
By Jeremy Thompson and staff
Updated 1 hour 49 minutes ago
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200912/r479707_2435598.jpg
A Herald/Nielsen poll has Tony Abbott's approval rating above Julia Gillard for the first time. (AAP)

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott is enjoying a big jump in popularity after last week's federal budget and the Government's asylum seeker deal with Malaysia.

Mr Abbott says the Prime Minister has "stopped listening" and sheets the result back to Ms Gillard's broken promise on a carbon tax.

But Finance Minister Penny Wong blames Mr Abbott's "relentless negativity" and says he is a "good fighter, but not a good leader".

A Herald/Nielsen poll has Mr Abbott's approval rating above Prime Minister Julia Gillard for the first time.

He rose three points to 45 per cent, while Ms Gillard slipped two points to 43 per cent.

Ms Gillard, however, has maintained her lead as preferred prime minister, 47 to 42 per cent. .....<cont>


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/05/16/3217399.htm
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 07:32 pm
@msolga,
God help us.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 07:35 pm
@hingehead,
Yeah, I know, hinge.

Read Chris Uhlmann's article.
You might feel a smidgen better.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 08:02 pm
@msolga,
Didn't help much. Confirms my 'overreach' theory of some weeks ago.

What shits me is that Tony's distracting/destructing is taking the spotlight of things we should really be talking about - which is something George Megalogenis talks about here: Just keep digging | The Australian http://bit.ly/lLe1uU
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 08:03 pm
@msolga,
And the majority of us are so dumb we buy the emptiness and one liners? Sickens me.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 08:34 pm
@hingehead,
I honestly think "the majority" have switched off politics, hinge.
Just don't want to think about it much anymore.
A helluva a lot of cynicism out there in the community.
It seems to be he who yells the loudest (simplistic jargon), with the least need for serious details to be considered, who seems to make the most impact at the moment.
Neutral
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 08:57 pm
@msolga,
Agreed. Have you seen any of the coverage of Lindsay Tanner's book about the dumbifying of politics and the media?

I so hope that the budget does go in surplus in 12/13 and then an election is called - I want to see endless grabs of Abbott, Barnaby Choice and Joe Hockey saying 'They'll never deliver a surplus' in ALP election ads- I think it's bizarre that they would assert that so openly and repeatedly - ads to Uhlmann's thesis about Abott's high risk approach.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 09:41 pm
@hingehead,
I think the rot set in well before now, hinge ... starting with Howard's "core & non-core" promises ...
And from Labor's side: the (accurate, I think) perception that the NSW Right has totally over-stepped it's hand ... Labor needs to reignite some enthusiasm for grass roots membership if it wants to survive, I think. And that won't happen until there is some genuine respect for members & also real members' involvement party politics again.
And remember the light on the hill & all that?
History.
Sigh.

Quote:
Have you seen any of the coverage of Lindsay Tanner's book about the dumbifying of politics and the media?

Yes, I have.
I think much of what he has to say is spot on.
Just goes to show what happens to half-decent politicians when confronted with the party machine these days.
Neutral

Quote:
I so hope that the budget does go in surplus in 12/13 and then an election is called - I want to see endless grabs of Abbott, Barnaby Choice and Joe Hockey saying 'They'll never deliver a surplus' in ALP election ads- I think it's bizarre that they would assert that so openly and repeatedly - ads to Uhlmann's thesis about Abott's high risk approach.

Call me silly, but I think all this emphasis on surplus budgets is a right wing ploy.
Abbott talks about "no big/new taxes", yet how can we pay for what is actually needed in the community without actually paying the taxes that a required to do that?
And if that means not achieving a budget surplus in a hurry, well so what?
We are in debt to ourselves.
We will have to find our own answers to that.
Abbott could not run the country if his simplistic "economic theory" was actually put to the test.
His statements are all populist political vote-gaining wind, designed to undermine the Labor government, nothing else.
His sole agenda is bringing on a fresh election, nothing more.
Somehow the "economic debate" has to become more real, so that people actually realize that his jargon is meaningless, irresponsible, populist garbage.
But how to do that in the current climate?
I honestly don't know.
Neutral

edit: Horrible thought, but ...
Maybe what it will take for Abbott's ideas/slogans to be thoroughly debunked would be for the Libs to actually win the next election?
THAT would certainly sort out his rhetoric from the reality of running the country?
I've been closely observing the conservative/lib dem government in the UK & well ... what can you say about the deal that ordinary people are receiving from this government?
They are totally screwed.
A very hard way to learn, though, yes? Sad




hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 10:38 pm
@msolga,
Yes, perhaps the tories rule will make electorate think twice here.

Who am I kidding? The electorate proves it isn't that smart - as you say the whole argument about balancing the budget is a furphy - Abbott and Hockey tell the voters it's like spending more in your pay packet than you earn (ignoring the fact that anyone with a mortgage is doing just that) when me with my year 11 economics knows that there are budget deficit multipliers and good reasons for having deficits. Sensibly Swann/Gillard have said it's time to reduce the supply of govt funds in the monetary pool to ease inflationary pressure and allow space for private investment - but that's not a sexy grab for the 'cake and circuses' mob who think the line 'building the entertainment revolution' has a Shakespearean depth of wit.

msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 10:54 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
Yes, perhaps the tories rule will make electorate think twice here.

Well they will certainly think again when those policies actually impact on their lives, hinge.

At the moment it is all theory & jargon & Abbott point scoring.

The reality (if it happens) will be cruel.

Quote:
The electorate proves it isn't that smart - as you say the whole argument about balancing the budget is a furphy - Abbott and Hockey tell the voters it's like spending more in your pay packet than you earn (ignoring the fact that anyone with a mortgage is doing just that) when me with my year 11 economics knows that there are budget deficit multipliers and good reasons for having deficits. Sensibly Swann/Gillard have said it's time to reduce the supply of govt funds in the monetary pool to ease inflationary pressure and allow space for private investment - but that's not a sexy grab for the 'cake and circuses' mob who think the line 'building the entertainment revolution' has a Shakespearean depth of wit.

Yes.
And if the electorate doesn't wake up to itself, pay some real attention, then the electorate will only have itself to blame.
Though some will suffer the consequences a damn sight more than others.
For some the reality will be extremely harsh.

And here we are, busily considering whether an annual household income of $150 is "rich", or deserving of more taxpayer support or not. Rolling Eyes
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 11:58 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
And here we are, busily considering whether an annual household income of $150 is "rich", or deserving of more taxpayer support or not.


Speaking as part of that middle class group the govt is warring on... We surrender. We reckon there are plenty more people who need the handout, we don't.

It's a hangover from Howard's vote buying decade - proving Paul Keating right, that the libs wasted an opportunity to build the country by 'falling asleep at the wheel' while the economic road had no bumps in it. I get the sense from the more sensible commentators that there is a fear that the current govt might muck this up too - but at least Gillard is passionate about education and opportunity, even if it's difficult to see what else she really believes in.

hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 12:03 am
@msolga,
Quote:
I honestly think "the majority" have switched off politics, hinge.


Which is kind of odd as mainstream media coverage has turned it into a reality tv show for the attention impaired.

What terrifies me the Gen Y's I know, in the western subs of Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane who fear boatloads of reffos and think Labor makes petrol expensive just to piss them off, and thus ends their commentary on auspol.

I despair of a world where we are all so close courtesy of the information age, but our minds are getting more closed. How does that happen. Can't hear for listening, can't see for looking?
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 12:23 am
@hingehead,
Quote:
Speaking as part of that middle class group the govt is warring on... We surrender. We reckon there are plenty more people who need the handout, we don't.

Yes, I agree with you, hinge.
And for those who really need it to survive it's much more than just a "hand-out"

Quote:
It's a hangover from Howard's vote buying decade.

Yep.
Quite a few other vote buying hand-outs (or bribes) still lingering from that period, too. (Like the generous amount allocated for school chaplains in the recent budget. A sop to the Christian lobby. A very controversial issue in state schools right now. )
Trouble is, people got used to these hand-outs & now think of them as the "normal" state of affairs, when actually they were quite unnecessary & at the expense of much more important programs.

Quote:
I get the sense from the more sensible commentators that there is a fear that the current govt might muck this up too -

Yes?
What makes you think that?

Quote:
but at least Gillard is passionate about education and opportunity, even if it's difficult to see what else she really believes in.

(feeling like I'm a cold shower here Wink ) .... I think she's been listening to the wrong "experts" & advisers on education.
Adopting ideas which haven't worked in the US & UK. At a time they are considering other approaches.
Admittedly she's passionate, though I'd consider a number of her "reforms" misguided or inappropriate for our schools ....
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 12:32 am
@hingehead,
That's the problem.
Politics is now a media sideshow, not being given the necessary consideration.
Quote:
I despair of a world where we are all so close courtesy of the information age, but our minds are getting more closed. How does that happen. Can't hear for listening, can't see for looking?

I think the media has quite a bit to answer for here.
Not necessarily because of deliberate misinterpretation or propagandizing, but because of the poor quality of political reporting these days. Amateur reporting, done on the cheap.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 01:00 am
@msolga,
A whole lot of articles about the "chaplains in state schools" issue, if you're interested, hinge.

Might give you some material for other A2K religion/Atheism threads. Wink

http://www.theage.com.au/execute_search.html?text=chaplains+in+state+schools&ss=theage.com.au

Disciple claim sparks call for chaplain funding freeze:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/05/13/3216156.htm
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 01:21 am
@msolga,
Quote:
Yes?
What makes you think that?


All three of the panel on Insiders on Sunday expressed concern that leaving the deficit as high as it was meant that if we experience a dead cat bounce (another GFC, we'd have nothing in reserve to pad it like they could with the last one.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 01:24 am
@msolga,
Quote:
I think she's been listening to the wrong "experts" & advisers on education.


In pedagogy terms are or you against the schools site and the performance payment idea? Or something else (apart from the chaplaincy thing that is just insane)
 

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