12
   

How to discipline a teen?

 
 
Krumple
 
  2  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 05:33 pm
@stevecook172001,
stevecook172001 wrote:

Krumple wrote:

Katrina96 wrote:

I had to take away a day of hockey from him for pushing his little sister underwater at the pool today. I feel bad because I know how much he loves playing hockey. Do you think I did the right thing?


I'm not sure, but I do know you are helping me to reaffirm my desire to never have kids. Sounds like nothing more than a constant pain in the ass.

Statistically speaking, having kids is likely to psychologically fulfil you at the most fundamental level. Darwinian evolution will always have it's way. At least, on the whole, it will.

There are always outliers, of course, who will not suffer any deliterious psychological consequences of choosing not to have children.

The question is, do you feel lucky?

Well do ya?..... Wink


I'm not sure what you are asking me here. If I want to have kids I wouldn't have a problem with it. I just don't want them. I enjoy my freedom and ability to only need to look after myself. You can say I am being too narcissistic but that is how I like my life. I don't want someone to depend on me not because I am unreliable but because I don't want that responsibility. I like being able to do things on my own terms without needing to see if things are okay with anyone else. I can take trips and vacations any time I find it necessary without having to work out any details that are not my own. I like going hiking and camping when ever I feel the need, but you can't exactly do that with kids. Sure you can make plans for it but you still have to deal with them at some point. I have more freedom and I value that freedom.

Some people have kids because they want the love from that child. I don't have any need for that. I don't need to feel loved by any other being to be comfortable in my existence. So I don't consider that at all and it doesn't bother me to not have it.
stevecook172001
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 05:41 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:

stevecook172001 wrote:

Krumple wrote:

Katrina96 wrote:

I had to take away a day of hockey from him for pushing his little sister underwater at the pool today. I feel bad because I know how much he loves playing hockey. Do you think I did the right thing?


I'm not sure, but I do know you are helping me to reaffirm my desire to never have kids. Sounds like nothing more than a constant pain in the ass.

Statistically speaking, having kids is likely to psychologically fulfil you at the most fundamental level. Darwinian evolution will always have it's way. At least, on the whole, it will.

There are always outliers, of course, who will not suffer any deliterious psychological consequences of choosing not to have children.

The question is, do you feel lucky?

Well do ya?..... Wink


I'm not sure what you are asking me here. If I want to have kids I wouldn't have a problem with it. I just don't want them. I enjoy my freedom and ability to only need to look after myself. You can say I am being too narcissistic but that is how I like my life. I don't want someone to depend on me not because I am unreliable but because I don't want that responsibility. I like being able to do things on my own terms without needing to see if things are okay with anyone else. I can take trips and vacations any time I find it necessary without having to work out any details that are not my own. I like going hiking and camping when ever I feel the need, but you can't exactly do that with kids. Sure you can make plans for it but you still have to deal with them at some point. I have more freedom and I value that freedom.

Some people have kids because they want the love from that child. I don't have any need for that. I don't need to feel loved by any other being to be comfortable in my existence. So I don't consider that at all and it doesn't bother me to not have it.

I'm just having fun with you Krumple, though trying to make a serious point in the process.

If you genuinely don't feel the need to have kids (I am discounting the issue of how old you are as this has some relevance), then that's fair enough and absolutely fine. This is merely a technical issue of biology I am raising here and has nothing to do with what is "correct" or "incorrect" .

However, if true, then your preferences are , by definition, a statistical improbability. Not impossible, of course, but improbable nonetheless. It your preferences regarding the having of children were anything other than improbable, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Because we wouldn't exist.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 05:46 pm
@stevecook172001,
But his preference is only improbable because the ability to control oneself is improbable.

stevecook172001
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2010 05:56 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

But his preference is only improbable because the ability to control oneself is improbable.



Yes and no

I would say that there are two possible reasons for the improbable preference for not wanting kids. One of which matches yours given above.

1) The individual in question is simply not strongly genetically hard-wired to particularly desire having kids. The thing to remember with Darwinian evolution is that it only needs to get it "right" for the majority of the throws of the genetic dice.

2) Due to our incredible ability as a species to learn just about any type of behaviour as a consequence of arbitary cultural prefences limited to a particular time and place, there may be short-term instances of cultural preferences that temporaily run counter to deeper hard-wired predispositions.

In the long term,though, such dissonant cultural preferences will tend to be unstable as they are not built on those genetically hard-wired predispositions. But, one might surmise they could concievably persist for short periods.

I guess the above two reasons are the basis of my little joke with Krumple. If he/she is lucky, then his/her stated preference of not wanting children will be as a result of (1). If he/she is unlucky, it will be as a result of (2). In which case, he/she may regret in later life any decisions he/she may currently make based on that preference.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 03:48 am
@stevecook172001,
I presume that what you're trying to say is that it is improbable that people would consider it a bit of an imposition to be responsible for sticking somebody else, their offspring, into this shithole for the term of life with all its lovely little aspects.

What aspects of life do you consider constitute a joyous gift in a calculus of the whole of it?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 04:13 am
@stevecook172001,
To what extent steve do you think that having done the deed, for whatever reason, it becomes necessary to make the best of it and to try to cobble together arguments to justify it in order to never admit that it was a ghastly mistake?

Which then creates a situation where the world's best literature has to be put on ignore. The ensuing sophistry then leads to the improbability you refer to and is a self-flattering assertion and self-fulfilling.

Thorstein Veblen said something like "the illegitimacy rate represents the triumph of the hormones over the proprieties."

I think it was C.S. Lewis who referred to the "pram in the hall" as signifying a loss of intellectual credibilty.
stevecook172001
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 05:08 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

I presume that what you're trying to say is that it is improbable that people would consider it a bit of an imposition to be responsible for sticking somebody else, their offspring, into this shithole for the term of life with all its lovely little aspects.

What aspects of life do you consider constitute a joyous gift in a calculus of the whole of it?

No, I'm not trying to get at that at all. That is a subjective reflection on the state of the world into which kids are born. I may or may not agree with it, but it has nothing to do with my previous posts on this issue in this thread. People don't fundamentally have kids with serious thought of the consequences in mind. People have kids because they are hard-wired to want to have kids. No matter what. Or, at least, the majority are. As I have already pointed out in a previous post, if the majority of humans wern't hard wired that way, then we wouldn't be here.

As for what aspects of life I consider to be a joyous gift, for myself this is undoubtably having kids. However, I would say that wouldn't I since Darwinian evolution has ensured my psychology is hard-wired to feel that way.

I'm just doing what come natural Spendius..... Wink

stevecook172001
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 05:11 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

To what extent steve do you think that having done the deed, for whatever reason, it becomes necessary to make the best of it and to try to cobble together arguments to justify it in order to never admit that it was a ghastly mistake?

Which then creates a situation where the world's best literature has to be put on ignore. The ensuing sophistry then leads to the improbability you refer to and is a self-flattering assertion and self-fulfilling.

Thorstein Veblen said something like "the illegitimacy rate represents the triumph of the hormones over the proprieties."

I think it was C.S. Lewis who referred to the "pram in the hall" as signifying a loss of intellectual credibilty.

I'm sorry Spendius, I don't know what you are on about here. You are going to need to explain this post again to me.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 10:28 am
@stevecook172001,
It's a difficult argument steve because it gives offence to people's sensibilities.

But we are not hard wired by evolution to the extent that we can't overcome it due to our having the capacity for thought. The alternative reduces us to the level of the beasts. We are hard wired to crave saturated fats but in a world which provides unlimited amounts of cheap sat fats, which didn't apply when the hard wiring took place when sat fats were extremely valuable, we have to restrict our craving for them. We are hard wired to be selfish, narcissistic and cruel and education is designed, or should be, to inhibit those characteristics.

What do you think of Europeans who had kids when Hitler started rampaging? Or when nuclear war was threatened. Or when the telly is shouting that one in three gets cancer and showing gruesome images of the state of the elderly. Plus plenty more. Like coming under the power of teachers and the employing classes.

Quote:
People don't fundamentally have kids with serious thought of the consequences in mind.


That's generally true but once they do have kids they have then a personal interest in maintaining your line. Otherwise they have to admit to having made a mistake which few will do because the kid is there now. And, if the kid is a Yank, it is set to consume a large amount of energy in its lifetime. And cause drilling in risky places.

Quote:
As for what aspects of life I consider to be a joyous gift, for myself this is undoubtably having kids.


That's selfish. Stick somebody in this shithole because you like having kids. Wonderful.

Quote:
I'm just doing what come natural Spendius....


I don't know about that. What does "lie back and think of England" mean? Do you mean that sex is male orgasm? One cannot say that there's a maternal instinct when such a thing is by no means universal as instincts are. If I was a woman there would be no silly bugger getting me pregnant and that's for sure.

The very first sentence of Tristram Shandy reads- well--read it for yourself sometime.

stevecook172001
 
  2  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 12:32 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

It's a difficult argument steve because it gives offence to people's sensibilities.

But we are not hard wired by evolution to the extent that we can't overcome it due to our having the capacity for thought. The alternative reduces us to the level of the beasts. We are hard wired to crave saturated fats but in a world which provides unlimited amounts of cheap sat fats, which didn't apply when the hard wiring took place when sat fats were extremely valuable, we have to restrict our craving for them. We are hard wired to be selfish, narcissistic and cruel and education is designed, or should be, to inhibit those characteristics.

What do you think of Europeans who had kids when Hitler started rampaging? Or when nuclear war was threatened. Or when the telly is shouting that one in three gets cancer and showing gruesome images of the state of the elderly. Plus plenty more. Like coming under the power of teachers and the employing classes.

Quote:
People don't fundamentally have kids with serious thought of the consequences in mind.


That's generally true but once they do have kids they have then a personal interest in maintaining your line. Otherwise they have to admit to having made a mistake which few will do because the kid is there now. And, if the kid is a Yank, it is set to consume a large amount of energy in its lifetime. And cause drilling in risky places.

Quote:
As for what aspects of life I consider to be a joyous gift, for myself this is undoubtably having kids.


That's selfish. Stick somebody in this shithole because you like having kids. Wonderful.

Quote:
I'm just doing what come natural Spendius....


I don't know about that. What does "lie back and think of England" mean? Do you mean that sex is male orgasm? One cannot say that there's a maternal instinct when such a thing is by no means universal as instincts are. If I was a woman there would be no silly bugger getting me pregnant and that's for sure.

The very first sentence of Tristram Shandy reads- well--read it for yourself sometime.



All you have done here is make a big list of all of the things about human nature and its conseuences you don't like Spendius. Fair enough. I may even agree with some of them, though I most certainly don't agree with all of them.

All irrelevant though, in the end. You are talking about how you wish things were. I am talking about how things are and about how they will inevitably be as a consequneces of our fundamental, animal natures.

Oh and by the way, what the hell do you think we are if not animals just like any other?

Welcome to the real world Spendius.

The real world

as it is.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 04:29 pm
@stevecook172001,
The real world eh??? That's sperm banks and eugenics surely. That must be the way forward. Or at least until Huxley's bottle babes are perfected. Or the Marxists remove babies from their mums at birth and give them a $1000 bonus and some vouchers to spend in Bloomingdales.

Is it 40 million abortions since Roe Wade? Great spin for the maternal instinct what?

Every heard of birth control? Let's see now--there's pulling it out on the cusp of the vinegar stroke, kicking the beer crate away when the knees go wobbly, rubber or synthetics barriers on the dick or up the jolly, poisons discovered in research labs, alternative orifices, spermicides and now inserts of mechanical devices under the skin of one's dearly beloved under local anaesthetic.

What's lubricant jelly for? Erectile dysfunction counselling. Sex lessons for kids using bananas and milk bottles. Pherenome sprays for ladies a bit slow on the uptake. Liqueurs and other suggestively named alcoholic beverages. Viagra. Lingerie. Kinky boots. Whips. Video recordings of same.

All aspects, variations etc not found in any book ever heard of which treats of animals or natural activities. What on earth are you on about old chap?

Methinks thou is havesting thyself on.
stevecook172001
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 04:55 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

The real world eh??? That's sperm banks and eugenics surely. That must be the way forward. Or at least until Huxley's bottle babes are perfected. Or the Marxists remove babies from their mums at birth and give them a $1000 bonus and some vouchers to spend in Bloomingdales.

Is it 40 million abortions since Roe Wade? Great spin for the maternal instinct what?

Every heard of birth control? Let's see now--there's pulling it out on the cusp of the vinegar stroke, kicking the beer crate away when the knees go wobbly, rubber or synthetics barriers on the dick or up the jolly, poisons discovered in research labs, alternative orifices, spermicides and now inserts of mechanical devices under the skin of one's dearly beloved under local anaesthetic.

What's lubricant jelly for? Erectile dysfunction counselling. Sex lessons for kids using bananas and milk bottles. Pherenome sprays for ladies a bit slow on the uptake. Liqueurs and other suggestively named alcoholic beverages. Viagra. Lingerie. Kinky boots. Whips. Video recordings of same.

All aspects, variations etc not found in any book ever heard of which treats of animals or natural activities. What on earth are you on about old chap?

Methinks thou is havesting thyself on.

What the f*ck are you on about apart from laying all of your own personal religious predjudices out in these posts. Where have I made mention of eugebics or even implied anything even related to such isues anywhere in my posts. Whithdraw this or f*ck off you loony

Where have I made mention of abortions? What has this got to do with my posts? Again, withdraw this shite or piss off

Lubricant jelly? .....Erectile disfunction?! ...WTF!

You really are one seriously fucked-up religiously driven loony mister. I guess I shouldl thank you as your loony posts are as good an advertisement for atheism for undecided readers out there as any I could have written.

I'm done with you


spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 05:08 pm
@stevecook172001,
You said we are animals just like any other steve.

Name me an animal that does any of the things I listed. And most of them are advertised in glossy brochures of one sort or another.
stevecook172001
 
  4  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 05:36 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

You said we are animals just like any other steve.

Name me an animal that does any of the things I listed. And most of them are advertised in glossy brochures of one sort or another.

Every single one of the human behaviours you cite, both the ones that might be commonly held to be deviant alongside the conflated behaviours you wish to portray as deviant but are in fact held by most people to be prefectly acceptable are all , without exception, a function of civilisation and cultural learning.

The behaviours I have written about on this thread are precisely the antithesis of those you have cited precisely because they are not cultural in origin, though they may well have cultural consequences

However, your need to constantly frame any debate within your own warped religious world view leads you to the kind of bullshit you have posted over the last few posts.

This forum is proving to be a real eye opener in terms of the kind of religious loonys in the USA. In the uk they are few and far between and when they do occassionally come out with your kind of shite they are mercilessly ridiculed. For some reason, you obviously get away with it over there as folks are too culturally shy to tell you what a load of dangerous tits you really are.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2010 11:57 am
@stevecook172001,
Once you assert my posts are bullshit the rest of your composition is predictable.

The behaviours I cited are commonplace. I passed no opinion about them. I merely reported them. I can't imagine what "warped religious view" I have expressed.

You're obviously too emotionally engaged for debating this matter. You cannot prove that wanting kids is "natural" as you claimed and not conditioned.

The Emperor Augustus brought in legislation to try to get Roman citizens to have more kids. It failed. They wouldn't have it. Up to about 100 years ago our two major universities required their dons to be celibate. It was deemed to unbalance objective study. The "pram in the hall" idea I mentioned from C.S. Lewis.

Your insults are wasted on me. I've been insulted better than that many times. It's water off a duck's back to me.

Explain why you think having kids is natural. What's the Western World's strike rate? 2.1 is it. Until the Greens get round to discouraging kids being born no sensible person will ever take them seriously. It is people who pollute. And don't they just?

You're still operating on the cannon-fodder conditioning. The Australian aboriginal population is supposed to have been stable for 15,000 years. And that's without any of the modern aids to a fulfilling sex life I listed rather cursorily. (for men I mean).
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2010 12:44 pm
@stevecook172001,
stevecook172001 wrote:
This forum is proving to be a real eye opener in terms of the kind of religious loonys in the USA. In the uk they are few and far between and when they do occassionally come out with your kind of shite they are mercilessly ridiculed. For some reason, you obviously get away with it over there as folks are too culturally shy to tell you what a load of dangerous tits you really are.


spendy's in the u.k.
stevecook172001
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2010 01:08 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

stevecook172001 wrote:
This forum is proving to be a real eye opener in terms of the kind of religious loonys in the USA. In the uk they are few and far between and when they do occassionally come out with your kind of shite they are mercilessly ridiculed. For some reason, you obviously get away with it over there as folks are too culturally shy to tell you what a load of dangerous tits you really are.


spendy's in the u.k.


Aha I was wondering what that meant for a while. I wonder iof he is a reincarnation of one Spendicus from another forum I frequent. There is a certain similarity
0 Replies
 
HesDeltanCaptain
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2015 09:00 am
@Katrina96,
Discipline is something that must begin early, be consistently performed, so that over time as kids get older the need for it is less and less as they learn what's proper. By 13 though, if a kid's unruly it's much too late to try instilling discipline as what works when you can easily overpower a smaller child isn't likely to work now.

This sounds less like a disciplinary issue and more like a symptom of a more significant problem or issue. When people act like this whether children or adults, it's indicative of something else going on. Discipline as with teaching children what's proper and not isn't what's needed here. And without knowing more I can't offer anything valid as it'd be all speculative.

For myself, some solutions include removing the door to his bedroom. I've always wondered what the point of doors in homes was anyway when a privacy curtain should be more than sufficient.
0 Replies
 
Ashleighh
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 14 Jul, 2017 07:02 am
For me I use punishments such as 15 with crop etc
0 Replies
 
 

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