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I almost woke up - from life!

 
 
mishmish
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 11:03 pm
@EmperorNero,
salima;159512 wrote:

i was just thinking this morning that i have no hope of reward in paradise, because it would be boring...

but it had something to do with making this world not as worthless as i once thought it was, and wondering if there could ever really be anything better, no matter how much i have complained about it in my life. maybe if we just learn how to work it right...


The value of life in relation to the physical world is not very high for any human, although culturally, we have very high values - at least we hope we do - and we can make the value of our lives higher too! I think we can't generalize life by what we experience in the physical, cultural or other worlds or cross them over because one is, more-or-less, independent from the other. Your a human and I think from the start you're very worthy to be here! Find what makes you happy - make your own paradise here! Love yourself - that's the most important thing. Don't wait until you die to go somewhere promised to be better.


HexHammer;159513 wrote:
Maybe to see our granchildren grow and prosper, to guard and guide our friends and family ..Imo there's endless of reasons.


That depends if procreation is a product of fear, or desire.

Personally I believe culture instilled in us from an early age that those values you mentioned, such as creating a family, are good reasons to stay in the physical world. These are all valid values (from a cultural point-of-view, unfortunately not beneficial for the physical world), and sure, if you were to build your life on these values, acquiring a family and friends, your position in the "cultural world" could set you up to achieve a happy and good lifestyle. Although lifestyles are illusions for true happiness and in many beliefs are not the reason for life.

jeeprs;159717 wrote:
hah. Good story. But I think Mishmish has a serious point there. People do have these experiences, and it is important, for them anyway, to understand what they mean. That I why I referred to the R M Bucke book. It actually provides a theoretical basis for the idea of enlightenment. It is subtitled 'a study in the evolution of the human mind'. Of course, it is not the kind of evolutionary theory that most of your straight ahead scientists will recognize. It says the human species is evolving towards a state called cosmic consciousness, which is as different to ordinary consciousness as human consciousness is to animal consciousness. Bucke then illustrates his theory with reference to a whole series of legendary prophets and sages, including JC, Mohammed, The Buddha, and many others.

There is another guy on the forum who is enthusiastic about hallucinogens. But his posts on topics other than his pet subject show (in my view) lack of insight and lack of education. It is true that you can have glimpses of the higher realms through these experiences. But 'what goes up must come down'. It is possible to have all the experience you like but until it is integrated and stabilized in your day-to-day life, they don't add up to a great deal.

I speak from experience.


The cosmic consciousness theory is very interesting to me and I find it interesting that it references ideas from Carl Jung. I'm trying to use the experiences to find meaning, and like you say, to also apply them in day-to-day life. The Mayans believed that we are progressing into a higher wave of consciousness likewise. The advancement of our civilization depends on the increase of worldwide consciousness.

EmperorNero;159747 wrote:
Wow, people have been ripping you for your realization. Don't mind them, it gives them a sense of superiority. They are caught in a much more narrow "world" than you.

I actually thought your realization was quite plausible and meaningful. The universe is the "world" of a higher consciousness. Maybe some theists have innate knowledge of that consciousness through their consciousness.


Thank you, I don't believe that anyone lives in a more narrow world than me. Neither do I believe that my experience made me enlightened or greater than anyone else. I believe that we all live, more or less, in the same wave of consciousness. Its only human to make the natural choice not to explore higher states of consciousness - Why explore the forest if the bush bears the fruit? Many, naturally, have no desire to explore these other states due to being raised with the lack of such education.

We all come close to higher states of consciousnesses at some point in our lives, we don't always realize that we enter these higher states while we're in them.


I appreciate all the references to book and comments from everyone. The idea that I can relate the most to my experience to the idea of the cosmic consciousness and I hope to read more about it in the next few weeks.
TickTockMan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 11:38 pm
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;159717 wrote:
It is true that you can have glimpses of the higher realms through these experiences. But 'what goes up must come down'. It is possible to have all the experience you like but until it is integrated and stabilized in your day-to-day life, they don't add up to a great deal.


Very true. Without the ability to integrate, the experiences of the humble mystic, sincere shaman, or adventurous psychonaut eventually become the babblings of just another burned out stoner and/or lunatic.

Not to say that some mystical experiences cannot be integrated.
And here I speak from experience.

However, I am often reminded of two quotes from the movie, The Razor's Edge (the Bill Murray version) when considering such things:

"The path to salvation is narrow, and as difficult to walk as the razor's edge."

and

"It is easy to be a holy man on top of a mountain."

As Nietzsche noted, "And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."

I guess he would have known . . . .

--------
0 Replies
 
jeeprs
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 11:51 pm
@mishmish,
Well that is interesting. Razor's Edge was based on a novel by W. Somerset Maugham (as you probably know) which depicted a world-weary but idealistic young American's search for enlightenment in India. It is said to be a great novel, although I personally don't think much of Bill Murray's film version of it. As for Nietzsche (donning flack jacket and helmet) I don't think he got anywhere near spiritual enlightenment. He was devoured first by ego, then by madness.

mishmish;159794 wrote:
The cosmic consciousness theory is very interesting to me and I find it interesting that it references ideas from Carl Jung.


Did I say that? Jung would have been 25 when Cosmic Consciousness was published. So it might have influenced him, but I doubt very much that Bucke had heard of Jung. But it is a great book. Make an effort to get hold of it.
TickTockMan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 12:11 am
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;159808 wrote:
Well that is interesting. Razor's Edge was based on a novel by W. Somerset Maugham (as you probably know) which depicted a world-weary but idealistic young American's search for enlightenment in India. It is said to be a great novel, although I personally don't think much of Bill Murray's film version of it. As for Nietzsche (donning flack jacket and helmet) I don't think he got anywhere near spiritual enlightenment. He was devoured first by ego, then by madness.


Ha! No need for the armor, jeeprs. I'm no Nietzche fan, though I think his quote is somewhat relevant in a cautionary way to some over-zealous seekers on certain paths toward spiritual knowledge.

For me, I think the Buddha holding up a flower in the park provided quite a bit to consider for one pondering whatever mysteries might be out there.
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 12:14 am
@mishmish,
mishmish;159794 wrote:
That depends if procreation is a product of fear, or desire.

Personally I believe culture instilled in us from an early age that those values you mentioned, such as creating a family, are good reasons to stay in the physical world. These are all valid values (from a cultural point-of-view, unfortunately not beneficial for the physical world), and sure, if you were to build your life on these values, acquiring a family and friends, your position in the "cultural world" could set you up to achieve a happy and good lifestyle. Although lifestyles are illusions for true happiness and in many beliefs are not the reason for life.
In many cultures the physical world would seek advice from ancestors, ask for help and guidance.
0 Replies
 
Descartes
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 12:18 am
@mishmish,
mishmish;158051 wrote:
I'm sorry that my English isn't so good and sorry for the lengthy post, I am looking for answers and opinions. I will try to explain my story in full detail the best I can and I will do my best to answer any questions that you have for me. Thank you, Mish.

Sitting in a hammock one morning I realized once again that life is simply just a cycle of life and death. This is theme that I find myself thinking about quite often and is nothing unusual to me. After the one thought came a stream of other thoughts that finally lead to something beyond what I can explain or recall experiencing in my whole life. The next few paragraphs are what the streams of thoughts were which lead to a paranormal event.

The first thought that came to me that morning was; what happens between the time-span of the human cycle of life and death is what people call "life" and life as we know it is a perception of a "physical" world that we call Earth. Earth is nothing more than a memory by a higher force - read on.

The next stream of thought was: we as humans take up role playing in our daily life, wearing masks on different settings. We are constantly creating "worlds" in which we play different roles - the husband, the boss, the child. We can choose to be whatever role we want to play in life and often we have multiple roles per day - creating so many worlds within ourselves.

After that, I began remembering various writings by different authors on the topics of GOD and spirituality. One of the topics I remember was based loosely on the theme that we all belong to a higher consciousness and that the universe was created by something "higher" in force. Soon after these streams of thoughts, I experienced a hallucination and I saw little streams of light coming from the cracks in the wall made from bricks.

Within that second, I realized something beyond what I've ever thought - The exact same way that we can create thoughts and memories or dream about things (these conscious-streams are manifestations of different "worlds" - because worlds are memories), something higher has created our universe in the same way. As in we are living in a conscious being which has created a memory of this universe. Here is the interesting part. As soon as I realized that when we DIE, we return to the god-like consciousness, I felt as if I was given the opportunity to awaken. I was presented with the opportunity to wake up from life, become conscious and be connected with the higher conscious.

Before I continue, I would like to hear some of your opinions on what you think about the experience I have written above. Also do you know any books which mention something along the lines of humans and life existing because of a memory created by someone/something higher in force.

I do have some good book references that specifically talks about what you are discussing and some good philosophers in which you can read what they have to say on the matter, ill get to you in a day
0 Replies
 
longfun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 12:32 am
@mishmish,
I don't want to alert you, but, I would see a doctor, a blood check en an eye check
Eye Floaters, Flashes and Seeing Spots in the Eye
0 Replies
 
Understanding
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 04:34 am
@mishmish,
mishmish;158051 wrote:
The first thought that came to me that morning was; what happens between the time-span of the human cycle of life and death is what people call "life" and life as we know it is a perception of a "physical" world that we call Earth. Earth is nothing more than a memory by a higher force - read on.


Our perception is how we experience this life (being on Earth). The past is memory. All that really exists is now. Memories are shadows of previous experiences that we recall. Earth is not a memory, it just is. Earth was created by a "higher force," higher than ourselves... clearly because we don't have the power to create a planet, solar system, or galaxy.


mishmish;158051 wrote:
The next stream of thought was: we as humans take up role playing in our daily life, wearing masks on different settings. We are constantly creating "worlds" in which we play different roles - the husband, the boss, the child. We can choose to be whatever role we want to play in life and often we have multiple roles per day - creating so many worlds within ourselves.


I have had an epiphany in this subject recently. We do wear many masks. I realized that the place where I got lost was that I transposed these "roles" with who or what I was/am. Each part you play is just that... a role. The transposing I am referring to is that I saw myself as a compilation of roles (I am a man, a son, a brother, an employee... etc.) instead of as a Being that is playing roles. Many problems have arisen from this switch. Life became quite complicated. Some of the roles I saw myself in conflicted with other roles. When seeing myself as these roles I was continually trying to figure out which path to take. Choices that I made were driven by satisfying a role, not the Being.

In writing down my epiphany I broadened my spectrum of explanation to "labels" rather than just one specific label (as in a role). The "who" of our Being seems to be a big pile of labels that we put on ourselves... including ones that are offered to us by our environment (including other Beings). My depression was caused by labels that I accepted and decided that I was those labels. Also, the labels I put on other people contributed to poor decisions (such as not being helpful to someone because I had labeled them irresponsible, selfish, etc... or by not speaking my mind to someone because they were on a higher rung of the ladder, unreasonable, etc.)

Roles and labels are not bad, or the problem for that matter. They are merely words and ideas that we assign to ourselves in the process of underatanding who or what we are. The problem lies in how we view those labels and roles in connection with our Self or our Being. I am a Being that enjoys thinking and understanding. People have told me that these qualities are in line with being a philosopher. Seeing myself as a philosopher narrows my field of vision from the statement of what I enjoy because I have a picture in my mind of what a philosopher is and what one does.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 06:00 am
@Understanding,
First you have an experience, then it becomes more and more apparent the reasoning. Its your experience, no one can really analyse it, but you.
Jay phil
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 09:30 am
@xris,
Interesting experience, and your account of it, thanks for sharing.

In the early 70s I found an interesting book whose thesis was on the relationship between consciousness and the drug problem in the world as a whole. The book is called The Natural Mind by Dr. Andy Weil. The basic thesis of the book is that we humans naturally crave altered states of consciousness, and to participate in altered states of consciousness; but contemporary society and cultures have suppressed its cultivation. This perspective is unusual coming from a Harvard-educated physician. Dr Weil would say we do not have a drug problem as such, but rather a crisis in consciousness that manifest itself as a drug problem. In earlier societies this inclination towards altered states of consciousness were encouraged and cultivated. Now we just call such accounts as irrational hallucinations.
Amazon.com: The Natural Mind: An Investigation of Drugs and the Higher Consciousness (0046442911566): Andrew T. Weil M.D.: Books
0 Replies
 
 

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