Marriage Culture

@TranscendHumanit,

The idea is that the wife should make the husband's life better, and the husband should make the wife's life better. It's supposed to be mutually beneficial, they take care of each other. He may provide the money, but you provide a lot too, yes? So you aren't especially obligated to be obedient any more than he is.

Divorce rates are high here because people get married when they shouldn't, and because people change a lot as the get older and are no longer compatible.

1 Reply

@TranscendHumanit,

Quote:

He may provide the money, but you provide a lot too, yes? So you aren't especially obligated to be obedient any more than he is.

I am obedient because my job is to help him relax and stopping his day of struggle and toil. He support me every day for everything I want, worth a lot of time and energy. And also I love him, and men and women are different - he provide protection and money, I provide him comfort and support.

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@TranscendHumanit,

TranscendHumanit;150037 wrote:

I read that in the west people are divorced all the time, and some people in Singapore do like that also. But I do not see why they even get married if they want to live like that.

I have no experience, but I am guessing that people get married for the wrong reasons, or reasons which have no bearing in the long term. In the west since marriage is of a more secular culture, though it is still just as easy to marry for the wrong reasons, I imagine it is easier to undo the damage, because there aren't as many cultural constraints limiting the effect society's sense of decency and good tastes will have on the married couple's psyches.

For example, why couldn't a man and a woman have a relationship (call it a friendship?) where all the same customs are followed and yet, neither of them even consider it necessary to be married. It's just a chore to them, and they don't need a sense of security. As in the case of friendship, do friendships need security? Then why marriages?

One thing that is notable to the culture here is that if people of the same gender are in a relationship we call it friendship. But when its two people of the opposite genders suddenly it's called a date, or a 'relationship', or marriage later on. If it started out as friendship and things got serious, it can no longer be friendship. There's pressure to call in an engagement or a path to marriage. It is engrained in the couple's heads that to continue calling it a friendship is silliness, simply not an option. All other ideals, values, or principles in life are trumped by the ideal for marriage. That has to come first. And then when marriage does come about, there's expectations. And these strain the amount of dedication to other ideals a person can have.

TranscendHumanit;150037 wrote:

I also read that some people, some people like feminist, do not like marriage and think that women should not cook and clean for man.

Feminists will not like marriage where women are "taken advantage" of by men. They promote equality and synergy between man and woman in society, and in marriage. Feminists don't condone marriage, more likely the opposite.

TranscendHumanit;150037 wrote:

But why not? Why should man want a wife who does not make his life better?

Hopefully that is one of the reasons why two people get married. They make one another's lives better. But if a man also marries a women only because she makes his life better, then there are at least three concerns.

Through making the man's life better, does this mean a sacrifice on the woman's part? One thing I've observed about marriages is that either both are happy, or neither of them are.
Where did the ideal that one ought to get married in the first place come from? Did it come from within, or did it come elsewhere?
How is this going to affect potential children? If both parents are not happy people to begin with, they should not endure their marriage at the cost of not only their own happiness but also the harm of their children who will suffer greatly as a result; all just because of culture's establishment of honour and decency. There is no decency in a sham wherein both parents perceive the mistake and regret, but where society remains indifferent and prefers a good as opposed to a right image, one which, is surely of a more relative nature.

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@TranscendHumanit,

TranscendHumanit;150037 wrote:

Marriage being important to me, I wonder about how other people feel about marriage. I think marriage is for people who love each other and also at life-point where they can make economic benefit to each other.

Marriage, for me, has worked out really well. My wife and I (about 12 years now) are pals, financial partners, bed mates and best friends. It's definitely difficult some times, but on the whole it suits us very well. I don't think its for everyone; so many different levels of "need" out there from person to person. But I'm quite happy with it. On the other hand, my last marriage (lasted 17 years), though quite good, still ended very badly. We changed over time and when that change came to be known, it was extremely painful.

TranscendHumanit;150037 wrote:

I read that in the west people are divorced all the time, and some people in Singapore do like that also. But I do not see why they even get married if they want to live like that.

Yea, although I've no statistics to verify this, I believe you're right

I think that where this is true, it has some to do with how self-centered, liberated and even narcissistic some cultures are. Marriage is full of compromises (some very difficult), many which people who are focused on themselves just don't want to make. In those cultures where marriage is stronger, it's not as "easy" to get out - thus they don't. This is probably an over simplification, but to some greater or lesser extent, I believe it plays a part.

Some people get married while they're still immature, others find out over the long term that they're incompatible or they change over the long term.. making what was once compatible, now not. These are 'human' behaviors - not endemic to any one nation or culture - but in cultures that are more socially liberated or self-centered, I think they'd likely result in more divorces. It's complicated...

I believe there's someone out there for everyone (compatability-wise, and likely more than just 1!). The trick is finding them. Good luck to you.

Thanks

---------- Post added 04-10-2010 at 03:18 PM ----------

Holiday20310401;150136 wrote:

Where did the ideal that one ought to get married in the first place come from? Did it come from within, or did it come elsewhere?

[/LIST]
This is an important point. I don't believe anyone "should" or shouldn't. Of all the important long-term decisions we make, such should be a product of the individual's desire to (or not), absent of external pressures.

Still, it doesn't work that way everywhere (obviously). Even so, this is a good and important point

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@TranscendHumanit,

Quote:

1. Through making the man's life better, does this mean a sacrifice on the woman's part? One thing I've observed about marriages is that either both are happy, or neither of them are.

Yes, of course. Marry indiscriminately is bad idea. Most parties must be coming to terms. Is important decision.

Quote:

2. Where did the ideal that one ought to get married in the first place come from? Did it come from within, or did it come elsewhere?

It is highly successful emotional, social and economic contract and relationship. Most people on planet stem from some form marriage.
Some not wanting to get marry. But many find satisfying. It is not entire identity - but should involve much of person for own interest, though - it make some things easier, but others more difficult.

Quote:

3. How is this going to affect potential children? If both parents are not happy people to begin with, they should not endure their marriage at the cost of not only their own happiness but also the harm of their children who will suffer greatly as a result; all just because of culture's establishment of honour and decency. There is no decency in a sham wherein both parents perceive the mistake and regret, but where society remains indifferent and prefers a good as opposed to a right image, one which, is surely of a more relative nature. "

Children as large decision as marriage itself. One should consider implications before problematic, though.

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@TranscendHumanit,

When it works (marriage), it's pretty damn sweet.

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@TranscendHumanit,

Be fruitful and multiply.

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@jack phil,

jack;150571 wrote:

Be fruitful and multiply.

I was actually thinking of skipping out on that part. Smile

1 Reply

@Reconstructo,

Reconstructo;150577 wrote:

I was actually thinking of skipping out on that part.

I still never deciding if I have children.

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@TranscendHumanit,

Having children is another thing that's 'not for everyone'. I heartily applaud those who know themselves enough to realize they're not ready - or flat out don't desire - children and don't have them as a result.

I had two; such a great experience and I'm so proud. But its the most responsibility-filled act we can ever take that lasts a lifetime. One can't abandon or take the easy road. If you're not sure; don't because it's not 'disolvable' like marriage generally is. If you do, congratulations; but be ready to make the changes in life necessary to do it right.

Great subject

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@Jebediah,

Jebediah;150042 wrote:

The idea is that the wife should make the husband's life better, and the husband should make the wife's life better. It's supposed to be mutually beneficial, they take care of each other. He may provide the money, but you provide a lot too, yes? So you aren't especially obligated to be obedient any more than he is.

Divorce rates are high here because people get married when they shouldn't, and because people change a lot as the get older and are no longer compatible.

Divorce rates in different countries correlates very highly with the ability (which includes legal and financial aspects) to get a divorce. Many people blithely look at divorce rates in "western" countries and imagine that this means that this shows that there is something wrong with those countries. But the simple fact is, if it is illegal (or very difficult) to get a divorce, or if you will starve to death if you get a divorce, you are not so likely to get a divorce, even if married life for you is hell.

You are, of course, right, that divorce rates are high because people get married when they should not, and they can change as they get older. This is particularly true when people marry at a young age. In the U.S., the younger people are on their first marriage, the more likely it is that it will end in divorce or separation. See:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_23/sr23_022.pdf

I would not be surprised if this is true in most countries, but I don't have the statistics at my fingertips, and do not wish to bother looking.

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@TranscendHumanit,

Quote:

You are, of course, right, that divorce rates are high because people get married when they should not, and they can change as they get older. This is particularly true when people marry at a young age. In the U.S., the younger people are on their first marriage, the more likely it is that it will end in divorce or separation.

I think also American less mature and not understanding adult life or marriage. This contributing to bad decision of marriage.

1 Reply

@TranscendHumanit,

I think marriage started out a religious, but is now just social. Its kinda funny how politics can be so important to something merely social, but i guess thats for the law. Marrage is for people who have feelings for each other and make each other happy. but sometimes people change.

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@TranscendHumanit,

Marriage being important to me, I wonder about how other people feel about marriage. I think marriage is for people who love each other and also at life-point where they can make economic benefit to each other. I do not think anyone have to do what they don't want, but I have always wanted husband who provide money and I take care of his home for him. I still want to write book while I do this, but I believe if someone take care of you you should be obedient to them; and also not to show infidelity or divorce them just because they make you mad.

I read that in the west people are divorced all the time, and some people in Singapore do like that also. But I do not see why they even get married if they want to live like that. I also read that some people, some people like feminist, do not like marriage and think that women should not cook and clean for man. But why not? Why should man want a wife who does not make his life better?

TranscendHumanit, You are so....exotic! I'm surprised you didn't get replies from western women saying "What! Are you out of your mind!?" I don't thing there is one single western woman that would agree with you, even those that are not specifically feminist. You are naive and pragmatic at the same time and I find it charming how you represent a pre-feminist era.
I learned some time ago that western men prefer asian women and you are a perfect example as to why more and more westerners chose to marry oriental women. You see mariage as team work, each one doing his-her part for the common good and that's a convenient way of living. I am feminist but I see that feminism succeeded more on the social level ie. on the level of human rights but on the level of relationships it turned out to be quite desasterous especially for the children, it saddens me to see how child rearing has become merely part of the domestic chores that should be shared by both the wife and husband, especially when there is a divorce. I think the problem is the same as with all ism's, it cannot fulfill all expectations and cannot apply to everything.So we still have to figure out how men and women can get along, there is no one absolute formula. My suggestion to you is that even though you chose to be a housewife in the traditional sense, you should be prepared to be economically independant because you never know what may happen...what if your husband loses his job, gets bankrupt or sick, are you going to throw him out and find someone else? In any case I wish you all the best and I hope you find the right guy with whom you can live happily forever

---------- Post added 04-18-2010 at 02:23 PM ----------

"I think also American less mature and not understanding adult life or marriage. This contributing to bad decision of marriage."

I totally agree with you on this! Blessings, dear TranscendHuamnit.

1 Reply

@polpol,

Quote:

TranscendHumanit, You are so....exotic! I'm surprised you didn't get replies from western women saying "What! Are you out of your mind!?" I don't thing there is one single western woman that would agree with you, even those that are not specifically feminist. You are naive and pragmatic at the same time and I find it charming how you represent a pre-feminist era.

My family being more conservative that most people is in Singapura..they are coming from Malaysia before I am born. My father marry my mother when he get job at a bank, and she is thirteen year old. I am born when she is younger than I am now. So I think I am raised by my mother to respect traditional marriage even more than other girl here.

Quote:

I learned some time ago that western men prefer asian women and you are a perfect example as to why more and more westerners chose to marry oriental women. You see mariage as team work, each one doing his-her part for the common good and that's a convenient way of living.

Even sometime I talk to people in Singapura and they say, "Why do you want to cook, get maid!" But I do not feel that my husband is to be taking care of me and paying for maid, if I am doing nothing. That shows no respect for him.

Quote:

I am feminist but I see that feminism succeeded more on the social level ie. on the level of human rights but on the level of relationships it turned out to be quite desasterous especially for the children, it saddens me to see how child rearing has become merely part of the domestic chores that should be shared by both the wife and husband, especially when there is a divorce. I think the problem is the same as with all ism's, it cannot fulfill all expectations and cannot apply to everything.So we still have to figure out how men and women can get along, there is no one absolute formula. My suggestion to you is that even though you chose to be a housewife in the traditional sense, you should be prepared to be economically independant because you never know what may happen...what if your husband loses his job, gets bankrupt or sick, are you going to throw him out and find someone else? In any case I wish you all the best and I hope you find the right guy with whom you can live happily forever

I am going to University and want to write book about economic history of Malaysia and Singapura. I want to improve English skill so I can teach English to other people, and maybe I learn Mandarin Chinese because is a good business language. I know how to do secretary work, I work for father to help him sometimes with business account and invoice. Work I can do, but I prefer to devote time and energy to making my husband life better.

1 Reply

@TranscendHumanit,

"I am going to University and want to write book about economic history of Malaysia and Singapura. I want to improve English skill so I can teach English to other people, and maybe I learn Mandarin Chinese because is a good business language. I know how to do secretary work, I work for father to help him sometimes with business account and invoice. Work I can do, but I prefer to devote time and energy to making my husband life better."

Too bad I don't have a son, you would be an ideal daughter in law!

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@TranscendHumanit,

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Too bad I don't have a son, you would be an ideal daughter in law!

Thank you, is great compliment Smile

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@TranscendHumanit,

I have been married 26 years now. I can't really imagine a different life. We are very happy although not without challenges. But I think marriage is an important institution for the reason that conservatives say it is: it is the basic social unit. Economically, socially, and culturally, it makes sense for children to be brought up in a family unit and then create another. It is not a matter of criticizing divorce - divorce must be freely available. on the other hand, a very casual attitude to sexual relationships and relationships generally does give rise to a society with a lot of single mothers and children who are under-parented. Will they, in turn, find it hard to commit to a stable relationship?

There is a lot of hostility in some circles to the idea of marriage. It can be regarded as promoting stereotypes and limiting human freedoms. I think it is something that should be defended.

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@TranscendHumanit,

TranscendHumanit;150037 wrote:

Marriage being important to me, I wonder about how other people feel about marriage. I think marriage is for people who love each other and also at life-point where they can make economic benefit to each other. I do not think anyone have to do what they don't want, but I have always wanted husband who provide money and I take care of his home for him. I still want to write book while I do this, but I believe if someone take care of you you should be obedient to them; and also not to show infidelity or divorce them just because they make you mad.

I read that in the west people are divorced all the time, and some people in Singapore do like that also. But I do not see why they even get married if they want to live like that. I also read that some people, some people like feminist, do not like marriage and think that women should not cook and clean for man. But why not? Why should man want a wife who does not make his life better?

Married men are healthier and live longer than either single men, or widowed or divorced men. And although a poor marriage takes its toll, the statistics tell us that even men in poor marriages do better.

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