@jeeprs,
jeeprs;168955 wrote: I think you are being confused by the idea that the conceptual is something that exists 'inside your head'. Perhaps it might be better understood as something that informs all of existence.
Well said. Form is not experienced apart from the world or apart from the human being. But in the interaction of the two. And intellectual or conceptual form just
is. The words "intellectual" and "conceptual" are unfortunate biased toward idealism, and that's the questionable aspect of Kant. But what choice did he have, right? To abstract the categories from experience one has to divide, negate, etc.
---------- Post added 05-26-2010 at 09:23 PM ----------
kennethamy;168959 wrote:It is the rebarbative expression, "knowing experiences" that leads to the belief that it is experiences, and not objects which are the objects of knowledge, and the insanities of idealism. And it is, in turn, Idealism which has led to the notion that what we know are experiences and not objects. Both notions, that we know experiences, and idealism, feed off each other and cause the confusion that leads us to think that we (whoever we are) are apart from a world we can never know about.
Actually, I generally agree with you here. I must say that "we" are "persons" are ourselves objects. Perhaps we disagree that abstractions are objects. I don't know. But I say that there
are abstract objects, in the sense of numbers and other abstractions. Objects are unities, either of qualia or other objects, both in the standard sense and in the abstract object sense. We might say that we
are experience. But "experience" is one more abstract object. And nothing we can say can directly communicate a large part of our "experience" which is largely non-conceptual. In the context of the thread, we
think in forms (or think forms), but do not
only experience this thinking of forms.
---------- Post added 05-26-2010 at 09:26 PM ----------
jeeprs;168972 wrote:
But I obviously don't think that idealism is 'insane'.
Good point. Hell , most if not all sane people are idealists to a point. Representation realism seems like transcendental idealism to me. 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. We all believe in "force" and "quarks" although know one has ever seen either, not in their nakedness. Because they don't exist for us sensually. They exist in our language.
