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Should Public Schools Inculcate Values in Students?

 
 
Insty
 
Reply Sun 7 Mar, 2010 10:35 pm
For example, values such as patriotism, tolerance of different viewpoints and sexual orientations, equality, and the like.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 4,064 • Replies: 35
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Minimal
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Mar, 2010 11:15 pm
@Insty,
Schools have had to make up for the lack of decent parenting at home in my opinion. There is this feel of, "They have the resources to find out information" and this sort of gives parents the idea they are liberated to let their children acquire knowledge and apply it on their own life. Although this is somewhat true, children need help in laying the foundations - keep in mind there also has to be room for flexibility for individual expression when they get older. Ultimately, schools are to teach knowledge and social skills and not there to indoctrinate your children with what a curriculum deems as important values relating to political or religious matters.

Etiquette and tolerance of others is a must in social development but enforcing things such as political or religious ideals seems too much - teach children about the basics and let them choose to learn more about subjects when they get to the stage of independently picking their subjects. Parents should get more say (or put more effort) into their children's upbringing than schools, in my honest opinion.

- Minimal.
Pyrrho
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 08:38 am
@Minimal,
Minimal;137408 wrote:
Schools have had to make up for the lack of decent parenting at home in my opinion. ...



I think that is the biggest source of problems with education. It is the parent's responsibility to educate their children, not the schools. The function of the schools is to supplement the children's education with relatively specialized information that parents are likely to be unable to teach themselves. But if a child is taught nothing in those years prior to first going to school, the child will not be fit for a classroom at all.

Many people have children without proper thought about the responsibility that they are thereby undertaking, and they fail in their duty to teach their children. Anyone who does not want such a responsibility should not have children.
Arjuna
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 09:27 am
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;137499 wrote:
Many people have children without proper thought about the responsibility that they are thereby undertaking, and they fail in their duty to teach their children. Anyone who does not want such a responsibility should not have children.
I agree, but they do keep having children. And I figure "they" were such children themselves.

I don't think public schools have that obligation, but humans have that obligation to each other. I think the best way to inculcate values is to treat the child as if he or she matters. Most everything else will follow from that. Passing out laws for behavior just gives a youngster something to rebel against... which I think is a natural part of growing up.
0 Replies
 
Pyrrho
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 09:43 am
@Insty,
Insty;137398 wrote:
For example, values such as patriotism, tolerance of different viewpoints and sexual orientations, equality, and the like.


It is an interesting question. It can be asked in a variety of ways. Should public schools prepare students to live productively and nondestructively in society? If the answer to that is "yes", then some values will be a part of what they will need.
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 11:57 am
@Pyrrho,
Should schools inculcate ideology is not the question. School by default do. They can't help but transmit an ideology of some sort because children cannot help but acquire one. The real question is, what is appropriate to transmit to children.
0 Replies
 
jack phil
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 01:54 pm
@Insty,
More reading, less textbooks. More building, less equations.
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 02:41 pm
@jack phil,
jack;137610 wrote:
More reading, less textbooks. More building, less equations.


Yes, masonry before mathematics. Children should learn how to build their houses before they worry about the financial calculations and implications of a mortgage. Unfortunately, not many middle schools offer bricklaying as a primary subject.
0 Replies
 
jack phil
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 03:04 pm
@Insty,
I did not say 'before'. I recommended a change of pace. It should not be news that geometry has been axed from mathematics. A new college degree is worth a high school degree from the fifties. The US cannot feed itself today because industry has shrunk over 60% in the last 50 years, and infrastructure has not been revamped in that long either.

Your money goes out the back door.

Consider another recommendation: Read the Alcibiades dialog.
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 03:08 pm
@jack phil,
jack;137641 wrote:
I did not say 'before'. I recommended a change of pace. It should not be news that geometry has been axed from mathematics. A new college degree is worth a high school degree from the fifties. The US cannot feed itself today because industry has shrunk over 60% in the last 50 years, and infrastructure has not been revamped in that long either.

Your money goes out the back door.

Consider another recommendation: Read the Alcibiades dialog.


Haha, sorry, I wasn't genuinely picking on you. I just imagined it funny when you said "more building, less equations". I just pictured all of these children being forced to lay bricks before recess, and their teachers shouting, "Screw the math quiz, keep layin'!". Whips came into play during this fantasy, but I'll stop here.
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 07:35 pm
@Insty,
Insty;137398 wrote:
For example, values such as patriotism, tolerance of different viewpoints and sexual orientations, equality, and the like.
Patriotism? Sounds like indoctrinal teaching for commies.
I do agree that tolerancce to some degree should be taught, depending on which kind ofc. If for fools to babble, and hate speeches, then no.

Equality is a 2 edged sword, in Denmark it has reached it's potential and now seems like a limitation for our society, since some interpet it to gifted chrildren must be equal and not recive better education than the rest.
Imo we shoudl avoid such idiocy at all cost.
0 Replies
 
mister kitten
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 07:04 pm
@Insty,
My karate class teaches some worthwhile values. When entering and leaving the dojo (classroom) students and teachers must bow to show respect. Our system also has the seven codes of bushido to keep in mind- Politeness, Loyalty, Justice, Courage, Benevolence, Veracity, and Honor.

I see no problem with placing the values before the students, as long as the values are worthwhile virtues.
0 Replies
 
Leviathen249
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 08:45 pm
@Insty,
I think he means instilling these values isn't the PRIMARY point of school.
I also believe that admirable values, like the ones mentioned above, can be learned at school, but secondary to the parents.
0 Replies
 
mister kitten
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 08:50 pm
@Insty,
My school makes us stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.
Leviathen249
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 08:52 pm
@mister kitten,
mister kitten;138067 wrote:
My school makes us stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.


Wow, are they even allowed to do that?!
I know they can't force you to say it, God and all, but forcing you to stand is also wrong. I believe.
mister kitten
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 09:28 pm
@Leviathen249,
Leviathen249;138068 wrote:
Wow, are they even allowed to do that?!
I know they can't force you to say it, God and all, but forcing you to stand is also wrong. I believe.


Probably not, but I'm far too tired to argue at 7:20 in the morning.

It's not wrong, it's good exercise.

The funny thing is after the pledge we have a "Moment of Silence" for about 10 seconds, and the teachers do nothing to force everyone to be silent. Some schools are strange.
north
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 10:53 pm
@mister kitten,
NO

schools should be passing along knowledge , only
prothero
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 12:51 am
@Insty,
I am not sure we can rely on parents to in calculate either knowledge or values. So some very basic values (honesty, integrity, courage, cooperation, mutual respect) and some needed knowledge should be imparted by the schools.
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 01:52 am
@prothero,
prothero;138174 wrote:
I am not sure we can rely on parents to in calculate either knowledge or values. So some very basic values (honesty, integrity, courage, cooperation, mutual respect) and some needed knowledge should be imparted by the schools.


Schools cannot help but impart these values. They must to achieve even the most modest level of classroom management without which no knowledge could be passed on.
JPhil
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 09:56 am
@Minimal,
Minimal;137408 wrote:
Schools have had to make up for the lack of decent parenting at home in my opinion. There is this feel of, "They have the resources to find out information" and this sort of gives parents the idea they are liberated to let their children acquire knowledge and apply it on their own life. Although this is somewhat true, children need help in laying the foundations - keep in mind there also has to be room for flexibility for individual expression when they get older. Ultimately, schools are to teach knowledge and social skills and not there to indoctrinate your children with what a curriculum deems as important values relating to political or religious matters.

Etiquette and tolerance of others is a must in social development but enforcing things such as political or religious ideals seems too much - teach children about the basics and let them choose to learn more about subjects when they get to the stage of independently picking their subjects. Parents should get more say (or put more effort) into their children's upbringing than schools, in my honest opinion.

- Minimal.


Of course. Parents should not be irresponsible about the values they believe their children should have. They should teach their children values and if the child want to keep them or not they will decide after they learn to understand the basic values. But to just put the child out there at tell them to choose, but they know nothing about values is foolish. At least give them a perception of what is wrong or right or what the parents believe. It is not th responsibility of schools to teach values but to only give them a sense of what others believed and allow the student to agree or disagree depending on how they want to live. How schools can help the parents, is by telling the children that values are important because living without emotion does not make a human or a being for that matter.
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