Evolution began with language

I think your major premise is incorrect...Evolution ended for all practical purposes with language because with concepts, as words are, adaptation began... Humanity has progressed through its forms, and as it has improved its forms it has improved its material condition, and taken over the earth... The die off essential to evolution has become formalized itself as War...Now war kills the fittest, and the unfittest survive...

Concepts precede words or we would have nothing to say...Number is an older form of concept, but kind as well as number would be essential to survival......Concepts fix consciouness, and they allow consciouness to be directed, and concepts store knowledge, culturally; so what is learned by one is not forgotten by others...

However, I don't think evolution is over for humans, merely because of certain of the pressures become greater or lesser.

I think I might would say it began with communication. Spoken word, while obviously a giant hurdle which speeds the process, is merely a tool. Thinking occurs regardless. Take the first person who was ever born deaf. He needed to figure out how to communicate with those around him but did not have words to use as a basis for doing so.
Then look at the fact that(I'm assuming) deaf people can have every bit as full a vocabulary as any of their hearing counterparts.

If by language you mean our mode of openly communicating with ourselves then I would say that may be correct. If I think about it, no matter how we think we can only do so by developing a language. That is to say we can't think something without giving that thought a value, an order, or a structure. Any concept must become something. That language need not be words. I guess the natural way language develops is by assigning a value to objects(a name) and getting those around you to agree and to use that value. Thought without language, I would think, would require a similar method in which a concept or object would have to be given a value and then saved in a particular location for which you could access whenever you wanted.
Think about sounds though. When a doorbell rings a process begins in which, instantly, and seemingly without thought, I know what is happening and what that sounds means. Could the process of hearing a doorbell ring and then deciding what it is not be considered thinking? I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere before that in fact sounds can evoke thoughts quicker than words can. In this example a ringing doorbell evokes the thought of what is happening faster than anyone could communicate the idea of someone is at the door.

I do not think that we have a list of all sounds that we have classified, and then we review, in order, to determine that the doorbell rang.

Is this conversation going round and round in a useless circle or what! Amperage said what I also believe. "We can't think something without giving that thought a value, an order, or a structure." Well, thats what I've been saying from the beginning I thought. Thats what LANGUAGE is.

So why did't animals after all these years invent things they wanted like we humans did? I'm asking, is it lack of language? Or didn't they want anything changed. They prefer it like it is? dan b mountain man

I would think that we would need a method for distinguishing sounds and remembering them. But I guess that makes sense since words, at least audible words, are nothing more than sounds that we have developed a method of distinguishing and remembering.

The only reason we are going in circles is because, imho, there is a confusion between the utility of language, as against langauge as a factor in evolution.

Lets try and discern this further;
1) Human Language is useful for communication among humans,

1a) Human Language is one of the result of Evolution.

2) Human Language helped us educate ourselves quickly

2a) Human Language developed after a long evolutionary processes, slowly and steadly, but eventually strode ahead of any other species.

3) Human language played an important role in Human progress or development

3a) Evolution played a much larger and pertinent role in developing our mind (and body; or, therefore, our body) to modify, codify and solidify the human language.

4) Human language is an art of useful sounds and symbols

4a) Logic, imagination (also called creativity and intelligence) made, simplification of communication through language, an incredient of evolutionary process.

5) Human language makes us distinguish, identify and articulate things and matters of Nature.

5a) Nature has been benevolent to the humankind to develop language as a tool of communication.

6) human language - a part of communication technique is also a feature of human progress. It is part of the so called progress. It also makes us stand apart from other earthly animals

6a) Communication techniques exists in all forms of living beings, not just humans.

and how do you differentiate language of humans from other communication means ? Is it the alphabet, rather than communication, that makes the difference ?

Something that crossed my mind while looking at this thread just now.

It's probably not relevant to anything other than it deals with language but I never know if I should make a new thread or just tack stuff like this on to existing threads.

Anyways, I was wondering why, if dolphins can think and problem solve, and they have their own language, why the heck haven't we figured out how to communicate with them?

As far as my brain can reckon there is only one form of communication. Ideas and concepts are given values and stored in memory. From that words, gestures, and even touch, smell, and taste are given context.
After that it's just a matter of translation.

Of course dolphins have echolocation which could be seen as a 6th sense that we don't have and that could somehow be creating difficulty

Evidently, i am not good at this, but let me try in my simple way.

Human Language is a part of communication. It is a technique. the means is your vocal chord or handwritings. The discerning organ/entity is your brain/mind. Language does not exist by itself.

As for the later question, if i got the question correctly, the alphabet is an script/symbol/sign denoting a particular sound. A particular vowel, consonant, octave, frequency or whatever you call it ( i am not an acoustics man, neither one who study sounds - they are termed as .... okay, here i go, i cant get the word, it start with an alphabet O******* ???? something,..... i can't get it now, let me know) represents A Sound (of A particular frequency). The alphabet like , lets say 'S', is a visual sign or symbol, in script form, having no value of its own, unless it is transformed into a reading in the mind or through the mouth to communicate either to oneself or to others.
Ofcourse 'today computers also read and write, but then that again works on the logic of usage of the alphabet-letter, just like numbers are calculated in a calculator.

So, the short answer is communication the generic term for interpersonal behaviour is what makes the difference.

To further this point, my thinking would be like, taking the example of the alphabet 'S'....... its phonotic value is something like 'aESs'.... thedictionary writes in a diffrent way . This sound 'aESs'... can be expressed or said by a parrot. So the sound which carries is what is repeated by the other, and this communication is not possible between a human and a parrot by showing it a symbol written as 'S' with a pencil.

I hope you get me. It is the sound (a part of communication) that makes the diffrence and not the written alphabet.

There is a subtle by crucial difference here. One needs to be careful on this bit of knowledge. Thanks

Something that crossed my mind while looking at this thread just now.

It's probably not relevant to anything other than it deals with language but I never know if I should make a new thread or just tack stuff like this on to existing threads.

Anyways, I was wondering why, if dolphins can think and problem solve, and they have their own language, why the heck haven't we figured out how to communicate with them?

As far as my brain can reckon there is only one form of communication. Ideas and concepts are given values and stored in memory. From that words, gestures, and even touch, smell, and taste are given context.
After that it's just a matter of translation.

Of course dolphins have echolocation which could be seen as a 6th sense that we don't have and that could somehow be creating difficulty

Are you saying there were no words prior to 4000 BC, or that people didn't use them?

...why, if dolphins can think and problem solve, and they have their own language, why the heck haven't we figured out how to communicate with them?

Now what I'm imvestigating is that The Bible's ADam and Eve are just the story of the beginning of Civilization. And immediatly after Adam is "formed" and given the "breath of life" in Gen.2;7, he is brought each of the animals to give them names. Gen.2;19 Is this not an indication that the book of Genesis is trying to tell us that civilization really began in Mesopotamia around 4000BC with Adam and Eve's word power.

Uh, Dan -- I think bacteria were around a wee bit before language was.

What do you think about the new Ardipithecus skeleton? What was it 3-4 million years old?

Human artwork has been dated to over 10,000 years old.

And the Bible is one of many relatively recent literary endeavors by modern man.

There is cultural evolution as well as physical. I can see how language would affect the two.