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If you were a bookie... Polls and bets on the 2004 elections

 
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2004 01:09 pm
Looking Good Ebrown!

http://www.able2know.com/forums/images/avatars/8239549954184f1d7c0e15.gif
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2004 02:03 pm
It's just for today Bill. But thanks.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2004 04:12 pm
'K ... time for an overview?

Opinion polls for week 44

(That's October 25 - October 31. Right, ending today. But more results that refer to data gathered this week will come in tomorrow, perhaps even Tuesday, so this is just an interim result. But it's already got data from 10 different pollsters.)

N.B. Several pollsters have released plural polls on data gathered this week. Eg the daily tracking polls. Two ways you can use those for a weekly update. Take the last one out -- or take the average. For the graph I use the average. Below, I'll give both options. And I'll use three-way race numbers unless there's only two-way data available (ie, Rasmussen) and likely voter samples unless there's only a registered voter sample available.

American Research Group
Bush 48 Kerry 48 Nader 1

Battleground Poll
Bush 51 Kerry 46 Nader 0

Democracy Corps
Bush 46,8 Kerry 48,8 Nader 0,8 (average)
Bush 47 Kerry 48 Nader 0 (last)

Economist/YouGov
Bush 45 Kerry 49 Nader 1

Fox News
Bush 47,7 Kerry 45,3 Nader 0,7 (average)
Bush 46 Kerry 46 Nader 1 (last)

LegerMarketing
Bush 49 Kerry 49 Nader 2

Newsweek
Bush 50 Kerry 44 Nader 1

Rasmussen
Bush 48,5 Kerry 47,0 (average)
Bush 48,1 Kerry 47,1 (last)

TIPP
Bush 47 Kerry 44,2 Nader 1,8 (average)
Bush 48 Kerry 43 Nader 1 (last)

Washington Post
Bush 48,8 Kerry 48 Nader 0,6 (average)
Bush 48 Kerry 48 Nader 0 (last)

Zogby/Reuters
Bush 47,4 Kerry 47 Nader 1 (average)
Bush 48 Kerry 48 Nader 0 (last)

If you've seen any polls out that referred to data gathered this past week and are not here yet, lemme know. I've got all the seven polls included in the RealClearPolitics 3-way overview, and then, as you can see, some more on top of that.

I'm thinking that Time, Gallup/CNN/USAToday and CBS/NYT will still come out with a poll and perhaps NBC/WSJ, Harris, Marist, ICR, Pew, AP-Ipsos and/or the LA Times as well.

Here's the averages, for now:

Average of all pollsters:
Bush 48,1 Kerry 46,9 (average) --- Bush +1,2
Bush 48,0 Kerry 46,9 (last) --- Bush +1,1


Graphs will follow ...
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2004 05:04 pm
Green Bay 28
Washington 14


Looks good for the challenger (if odd, probably-unrelated statistics count).

Yeah Green Bay!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2004 05:39 pm
Good. I am glad that is over.

Now, how do you get the smell out of your fur?
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2004 05:52 pm
Good evening and one more full day to go!
(This little story may be a bit off topic. I will delete it if asked to do so if yall think it it inappropriate here).
I had to work today at my retail store. I'm normally not there on Sundays but I was today. One of my employees came in (40-45 yrs old) and we started small-talking. He and/or his wife are lapsed Catholics (as is johnboy) but they go occasionally as they did this morning-to one of the two local Catholic churches.
The priest (the visiting priest; why this parish has to rely on visiting priests is another story) started in on the sermon. There is only one issue, one issue, he said, in this presidential campaign. And that issue is abortion. No Catholic could/should support a candidate who doesn't support anti-abortion laws.
My employee and his lady walked out mid-sermon, as did a number of other worshippers.

My question to yall is this: Did you hear anything from the church, mosque or synagogue this weekend trying to suggest how you should vote? Thank you for your comments. -rjb-
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2004 08:24 pm
Pew weighs in with a new poll that has Kerry up 1% among registered voters - but Bush up 3% among likely voters.

likely voters
Bush 48 (+1)
Kerry 45 (-2)

registered voters
Bush 45 (no ch.)
Kerry 46 (+1)

The other results are mixed at best too:

Quote:
The poll finds indications that turnout will be significantly higher than in the two previous presidential elections, especially among younger people. Yet Bush gets the boost Republican candidates typically receive when the sample is narrowed from the base of 2,408 registered voters to those most likely to vote. [..]

Pew's final survey suggests that the remaining undecided vote may break only slightly in Kerry's favor. When both turnout and the probable decisions of undecided voters are taken into account in Pew's final estimate, Bush holds a slight 51%-48% margin.

The poll, taken over a four-day period, found the recent video tape from Osama bin Laden had no clear impact on voter preferences. Interviews conducted after the tape was released on Oct. 29 generally resembled the polling conducted on the two previous days.

The potential still exists for changes in voter opinion and, equally important, in the composition of the electorate on Nov. 2. While 6% of likely voters are undecided, another 8% still leave open the possibility of changing their vote.

In that regard, neither campaign has a clear advantage in reaching potential supporters. The survey confirms the extent to which the campaigns are concentrating their efforts in the battleground states. Six-in-ten voters in these contested states say they have been personally contacted ­ either face-to-face or by telephone ­ by one or both of the campaigns.

Bush holds a solid 52%-43% lead among men, but unlike four years ago, women divide their support fairly evenly ­ 48% support Kerry, while 44% back Bush. Married women and mothers slightly favor the president over Kerry; unmarried women decidedly support the Democratic challenger [..]

Among religious groups, Bush continues to have an overwhelming advantage among white evangelical Protestants, and he also leads among white mainline Protestants. The race is a toss-up among white Catholics. [..]

Each candidate garners the support of about 90% of their partisans. Kerry holds a slight 48%-44% margin among independent voters. Bush continues to hold a significant advantage among male veterans.

Voter choices are more correlated with views of the war in Iraq and the war on terrorism than with opinions about the state of the national economy.

[..] significant numbers say they have already voted or plan to do so before Election Day. Overall, 16% of likely voters say they voted early, and another 8% expect to cast ballots before Nov. 2 [..]

Both parties have aggressively encouraged early voting and the poll indicates that their efforts have largely balanced each other out. Among those who say they have already cast a ballot, Kerry received 48% and Bush 47%. Those who say they still plan to vote early divide 49% for Bush and 46% for Kerry.

By a wide margin, (48%-27%), more registered voters say Bush, rather than Kerry, is most likely to win Tuesday's election. But there is decidedly more uncertainty on this score than at the beginning of the month, or even a few weeks ago. Currently, a quarter of voters decline to project an election outcome, up from 12% in early October.

Registered voters continue to view this election as very significant. More than eight-in-ten voters (84%) call the election outcome especially important, compared with 67% in the days prior to the 2000 election and just 61% at a comparable point in 1996.

As in previous polls, Bush's supporters are much more enthusiastic than those backing Kerry. In fact, Bush registers a higher percentage of strong supporters in the final weekend of the campaign than any candidate since former President Ronald Reagan in 1984. Fully 39% of likely voters support Bush strongly, while 9% back him only moderately. Roughly three-in-ten likely voters say they support Kerry strongly (32%), and 13% back him moderately, a pattern more typical of recent presidential candidates.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2004 08:52 pm
Those indications of the strength of the respective parties' support are really interesting. Pew provides a neat table with comparative data from previous elections.

I was just wondering, this afternoon when I was outside, when the last time was that a Presidential election was both this close and this passionate. Two camps of equal size, both infused with the sense that here are elections more important than any in years. Of course, one might say, there were the last elections, in 2000. But just remember the thousands of students who'd gather in spirited enthusiasm at Nader rallies, cheering at the alternative to what seemed like an irrelevant race ... Dont see that anymore.

So when was the last time the two camps were this galvanised in a race this close? I was thinking 1960. The Pew table shows me wrong. Not even 1960 measured up.

Consider this. GWB is "strongly" supported by 39% of likely voters, even as he doesn't get more than 48% in total. That sets him aside from any previous presidential candidate in the past 44 years. Yes, Reagan was strongly supported by 39% as well, in '84 - but that was on a grand total of 57%. The 39% merely indicated how sweeping the landslide was, not the intensity of his camp's feeling - after all, another 18% supported him weakly. Same with Nixon in '72 and Johnson in '64. 41% and 42% supported them strongly, respectively, but that was just 2/3s of their total support, which came up to 61% and 64%. With Bush, 4/5ths of his supporters is fanatic about it. No precedent for that.

Kerry's numbers meanwhile (32% strong and 13% soft support makes for a total of 45%), may be "more typical of recent presidential candidates" as Pew notes - but not Democratic ones. Not a single Democratic presidential candidate since LBJ was strongly supported by as many likely voters as Kerry now is - not election victors Clinton and Carter either. Yet it still doesn't get him a plurality. It merely indicates that 5/7ths of Democratic supporters feel "strongly" about their choice - and that, too, is unprecedented.

1960, when 3/4s of those leaning to Nixon and 2/3s of those leaning to JFK supported their candidate strongly and both candidates were locked in a 1% margin-race, is indeed the closest to this race in the table. But even then the camps were not as fired up as they are in this year's dead heat.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2004 10:52 pm
nimh wrote:
I'm thinking that Time, Gallup/CNN/USAToday and CBS/NYT will still come out with a poll and perhaps NBC/WSJ, Harris, Marist, ICR, Pew, AP-Ipsos and/or the LA Times as well.

Counting down ... three of 'em checking in already.

NBC/WSJ

likely voters
Bush 48 (no ch.)
Kerry 47 (-1)

Nader 1

Link. Bad news in the internals:

Quote:
When asked whether the Bush administration is at fault and should be held accountable for the missing explosives, 49 percent of the respondents in the poll say no, while just 38 percent say yes. In addition, the survey finds that 24 percent say Osama bin Laden's recent statement that "any state that does not mess with our security, has naturally guaranteed its own security" made them more inclined to vote for Bush. Twelve percent say it made them more inclined to vote for Kerry, and 62 percent say it made no difference at all. (This question about bin Laden has a margin of error of 4.0 percentage points.)

Furthermore, the poll shows that 49 percent of likely voters believe that terrorism and social issues are the two issues they find more important in deciding whom they will vote for in this election. That's compared with 39 percent who say the economy and health care are more important.


USA Today/CNN/Gallup:
LINK

likely voters

Poll, 29-31 October:
Bush 49 (-2)
Kerry 47 (+1)
Nader 0 (-1)

(same results for Bush & Kerry in 2-way race)

Final allocated estimate:
Bush 49
Kerry 49

Nader 1

registered voters
Bush 46 (-3)
Kerry 48 (+1)
Nader 1 (no ch.)

(in 2-way race, the results become Kerry 48, Bush 47. Not the first time in these very last days that the remaining Nader vote breaks to Bush. Those who are still opting for Nader now, one pollster noted, are not the Progressives who voted for him in 2000, but disgruntled Republicans or Independents.)

Job approval GWB:
Approve 51 (-3)
Disapprove 46 (+2)

CBS/NYT

Bush 49 (+2)
Kerry 46 (+1)

Nader 1 (-1)

Some sampled internals:

Quote:
The number of uncommitted voters up for grabs nationwide remains small: less than one in ten likely voters still either has no choice at all, or has a choice but might still change their mind before Tuesday.

[..] Today one in five voters nationwide say they have already cast their ballot in some way, and still more were planning to do so before Tuesday when interviewed Thursday through Saturday.

[..] Early voters split about evenly, one-third each between Democrats, Republicans and Independents. They are a bit older: one-quarter are 65 or over, and eight in ten are above age 45. President Bush holds a lead among them [Bush 51 Kerry 43].

[..] many voters say they would feel scared about the future if one of the candidates gets elected. 28% would be scared if Bush is re-elected - up from 17% who, in October of 2000, said they were frightened by the thought of a then-potential Bush presidency. Today, 23% would feel scared if Kerry takes the White House. One in five felt that way about Al Gore in October 2000.

Neither candidate, by contrast, inspires a lot of excitement. 16% say they would be excited if Bush wins, and another 31% would be optimistic (but not excited). 24% would be concerned. If Kerry were elected, one in ten voters would be excited, another third optimistic, and 31% of voters say they would be concerned.

[..] This poll was being conducted as the new tape of terrorist Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden surfaced; only its final day, Saturday, followed the tape's airing. In the interviews conducted after the tape (and news stories about it) was aired, the results were about the same

[..] Most voters do not think there is a deliberate attempt in some states to prevent African-Americans and others from voting or having their votes counted. Among African-American voters, however, a large majority thinks there is a deliberate attempt in some states to keep them from voting.

[..] The President's job approval rating among all Americans is now 49% (44% disapprove), an improvement from mid-October when 44% approved.

[..] Approval ratings on other specific elements of his presidency -- handling the economy, foreign policy and the situation in Iraq -- are more negative than positive. But public approval in one key area, handling terrorism, is strong; 55% approve, and 40% disapprove.

[..] Registered voters remain divided as to whether taking military action against Iraq was the right course of action, although more think it was right (52%) than think it was a mistake (44%).


Link. Commentary elsewhere on the site: "One big comfort for Kerry might be that in 2000, polls reported two days before the election tended to show Mr. Bush ahead of Al Gore. On Nov. 6, 2000, ABC News had Mr. Bush up by 4 points, the Washington Post and NBC by three, Gallup by two and Reuters/Zogby by one. Gore won the popular vote by about 543,000 votes."
0 Replies
 
pklon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 12:54 am
Redskins win
Bosox win
Bush loses!
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 09:14 am
Beware the Gallup Poll

That 49-49 result is due to Gallup's decision to allocate the remaining undecided voters based upon a tried-and-true formula -- 9 to 1 for the challenger.

Pew, on the other hand, decided to allocate the undecideds they found equally. This is what Pew had to say: "Pew's final survey suggests that the remaining undecided vote may break only slightly in Kerry's favor."

So, it appears that Pew's data told them something that the CW of undecided voters, i.e. their breaking toward the incumbent, is off. Gallup just did what my 9th grade geometry called a "plug and chug." As Polipundit notes, The New York Times survey indicates the same result as Pew. They found that undecideds do not seem to be breaking for Kerry.

http://jaycost.blogspot.com/
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 11:14 am
Marist College
Survey conducted on October 31. Data compared with poll of October 21.
LINK

likely voters
Bush 48 (-1)
Kerry 49 (+1)

Nader 1 (no ch.)

registered voters
Bush 48 (+1)
Kerry 48 (+1)
Nader <1 (-1)

Bush job approval:
Approve 50% (+1)
Disapprove 48% (no ch.)

http://home.wanadoo.nl/anepiphany/images/marist011104.gif

Quote:
When voters are asked to choose between Bush and Kerry on the key campaign issues, more voters continue to see President Bush as more likely to prevent future terror attacks [although his lead decreased by 4 points to 10%] and as having a better plan for Iraq [on which his lead decreased by 2 points to 5%]. Senator Kerry continues to be viewed as the candidate more likely to improve the economy [increasing his lead by 3 points to 10%].

[..] When registered voters reflect upon the videotape of Osama bin Laden they divide in their opinion of whether they are more favorable to George Bush or John Kerry. [Data: seeing or reading about the tape made 46% more favourable to Bush and 43% more favourable to Kerry. Division is completely along party lines.]
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 11:24 am
I'll be unsurprised if the breathless "News" today will be a "tightening" of the race, with a "Kerry Swing". Pretty much the same thing happened immediately prior to the 2002 Mid Terms. Then the final polls showed a late-breaking Democrat swing, buoying Democrat hopes and leading to confident prognostications they would decisively retake both The House and The Senate.

Similarly, the closing polls of the 2003 special elections brought hope to The Democrats that their ascendence was assurred.

I will be similarly unsurprised should current Democrat hopes be similarly dashed tomorrow. Them folks just don't get it.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 11:31 am
George Washington University Battleground Poll
conducted by the Tarrance Group (R) and Lake Snell Perry & Associates (D).
Oct. 27-28 & 31, 2004, compared with October 25-28:

Bush 49 (-1)
Kerry 45 (no ch.)


(according to pollingreport.com and 2.004k.com, that is; according to realclearpolitics, it's Bush 49, Kerry 46 in both two- and three-way race, with Nader at 0%.)
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 11:36 am
all those sgiggly lines just make me dizzy (SORRY !). hbg
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 11:39 am
timberlandko wrote:
I'll be unsurprised if the breathless "News" today will be a "tightening" of the race, with a "Kerry Swing". Pretty much the same thing happened immediately prior to the 2002 Mid Terms. Then the final polls showed a late-breaking Democrat swing, buoying Democrat hopes and leading to confident prognostications they would decisively retake both The House and The Senate.

I will be similarly unsurprised should current Democrat hopes be similarly dashed tomorrow. Them folks just don't get it.

Of course, the same happened in 2000 ... last-minute move towards Gore ... and it did get him the popular vote, when the preceding polls had almost all predicted a Bush victory by several percent ;-)

Personally, I'm beginning to suspect these elections will end up in Bush winning the popular vote, and Kerry the EC, by a hairwidth ... barring what happens in recounts and legal proceedings.

Democracy Corps
Polling data 29-31 October, compared to 29-30 October:

Bush 47 (no ch.)
Kerry 48 (no ch.)
Nader 1 (+1)

Vote projection, with undecideds allocated:
Bush 48,7
Kerry 49,5

Nader 0,6
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 12:11 pm
Data from today's tracking polls:

Reuters/Zogby:

Bush 46 (no ch.)
Kerry 46 (no ch.)

with leaners:
Bush 48 (no ch.)
Kerry 47 (-1)

Nader 1 (no ch.)

Fox News:

likely voters:
Bush 46 (no ch.)
Kerry 48 (+2)

Nader 1 (no ch.)

registered voters:
Bush 45 (no ch.)
Kerry 47 (no ch.)
Nader 1 (no ch.)

Rasmussen:

Bush 48,8 (+0,7)
Kerry 47,4 (+0,3)

with leaners:
Bush 49,4 (+0,6)
Kerry 48,8 (+0,6)


TIPP

3-way:
Bush 47 (-1)
Kerry 45 (+2)

Nader 1 (no ch.)

2-way:
Bush 45 (-2)
Kerry 44 (+2)

Still waiting for the WaPo one of today.
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 12:15 pm
(May I add that Green Bay defeated Washington yesterday and that every time Washington loses the game on the Sunday before election day, the incumbent party loses the presidencial election on Tuesday?
If that happens again -as it has since the 1930s-, then John Kerry is the next President of the USA)
0 Replies
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 12:20 pm
One of the things I find interesting is that all of the polls say it is a close race, but just talking to different people Kerry seems to have a HUGE advantage. This makes me think that there are either a TON of secret Bush supporters, that just keep quiet until voting day, or the polls are not doing a good job talking to the newly registered voters, which would give Kerry the edge.

I have a feeling that the no matter who wins on election day that the race will not be as close as the polls are saying.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 12:50 pm
Doncha just love that the Packers got to have a part in that, fbaezer? It even got ebrown_p in a cheesehead for the day...

JP, I know, I've been long wondering whether the polls have been accurate. The cell phone thing -- pollsters only call landlines and lots of people, especially younger ones, only have cell phones is one, but especially new registered voters and which way that will go.

Gawd, I can't believe it's happening TOMORROW! I haven't got any more of a handle on it now than I have at any point thus far. NO idea what to expect. Hopeful, of course, but any number of scenarios seem plausible.
0 Replies
 
 

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