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If you were a bookie... Polls and bets on the 2004 elections

 
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 01:00 am
From the right perspective ( :wink: ) it sure is, you betchya.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 03:02 am
nimh wrote:
Eh - it's early again. Or late, depending on how you look at it ...


yup. what can i say? musician. clock. huh??

" i've been drivin' all night, my hand's wet on the wheel"
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 03:15 am
timberlandko wrote:
Doin' just fine, DTOM, and thanks for askin'. How 'bout you?


about the same. readin' the board while my inner left coaster and country boy duke it out.

timberlandko wrote:
Yeah, nimh, I'm not all that comfortable with elecotral-vote's methodology ...


proportional electoral would be a good first step. the country is so interleaved now with so many of us being effected by cable, corporate shopping malls and those that left the "down home" getting tired of the rat race and moving back.

demographics are really starting to shift.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 04:29 am
Bush got a bounce in the post debate polls.

The 10/1 state by state electoral numbers.

http://www.geocities.com/samboni1342/state_polls.htm

BUSH: 295
KERRY: 197
UNDECIDED: 46
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 04:48 am
dude, are you gonna post this on every thread, or what???
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 04:56 am
Larry434 wrote:
Bush got a bounce in the post debate polls.

Post-debate bounce? Bunk.

No state poll has been released yet that was based on data gathered after the debate. None.

The data included in the link you provide also doesn't include a single poll from after the debate.

You're going to have to be a bit more patient, Larry ...
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 04:58 am
Meanwhile, over with the "Real Money People" at the electronic political markets ...

http://128.255.244.60/graphs/Pres04_WTA.png

Still a very comfortable margin for Bush. But who knows, we might have turned the corner. If so, will it have been in time?
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 05:02 am
nimh, he's been all over the place posting this. but, this is his data. i groused at him on one of the threads already.

time for you to work your magic.
polls

Laughing
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 05:05 am
nimh wrote:
Larry434 wrote:
Bush got a bounce in the post debate polls.

Post-debate bounce? Bunk.

No state poll has been released yet that was based on data gathered after the debate. None.

The data included in the link you provide also doesn't include a single poll from after the debate.

You're going to have to be a bit more patient, Larry ...


You got me there. The compilation was released post debate but based on poll data before the debate. My mistake.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 08:44 am
Quote:
DemCorps put out this one-day pre, post survey similar to ABC, fwiw.

http://www.democracycorps.com/reports/surveys/Democracy_Corps_September_30_2004_1st_Debate_Survey.pdf

This poll was conducted in somewhat the same way ABC's poll was. They talked to people both before and afterwards and recorded their responses.

Baseline numbers from what they say:

45% say Kerry won the debate, 32% say Bush, 17% say neither, 6% say both.

Kerry improved himself greatly with the voters in terms of personal characteristics and leadership qualities. Ironically, Bush slightly gained, or stayed even in most of these categories also.

They also showed gains in terms of how Kerry would handle homeland security and terrorism, but not much in terms of Iraq or foreign policy.

Overall, the President's JA went up during after the debate from 51% to 52%. Also amusingly, the right track-wrong track numbers went from -13 to -7 post-debate (I can't figure that one out)

The horserace numbers looked this way.

Before debate: Bush 50, Kerry 46 (with leaners)
After debate: Bush 50, Kerry 48 (with leaners)
Quote:
JA #17: "Also amusingly, the right track-wrong track numbers went from -13 to -7 post-debate (I can't figure that one out)"

Hypothesis: The people saw the two major party candidates having a serious discussion of important issues in time of war. They found that reassuring.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 11:41 am
nimh wrote:

Since this bloody computer won't reinstall Acrobat Reader,


what os are you using nimh?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 01:06 pm
Some thoughts on the internals of that Democracy Corps poll, and some othr updated observations:

Q.6 Generally speaking, do you think that things in this country are going in the right direction, or do you
feel things have gotten pretty seriously off on the wrong track?

Pre/Post

Right direction 43 / 46
Wrong track 56 53
Right - Wrong -13 / -7


A tilt away from "Wrong Direction" Advantage: Bush

Q.7 Do you approve or disapprove of the way George Bush is handling his job as president?

Strongly approve 27 / 31
Somewhat approve 24 / 21
Somewhat disapprove 14 / 14
Strongly disapprove 35 / 34

Total Approve 51 / 52
Total Disapprove 49 / 48


A tilt away from "Disapprove" Advantage: Bush


Q.15 Thinking about the elections in November, if the candidates for President were Republican George
Bush, Democrat John Kerry and Independent Ralph Nader, for whom would you vote?

John Kerry 44 / 47
Lean John Kerry 2 / 1
George Bush 49 / 49
Lean George Bush 1 / 1
Ralph Nader 2 / 1
Lean Ralph Nader 0 / 0
Not sure 2 / 2

Total John Kerry 46 / 48
Total George Bush 50 / 50
Total Ralph Nader 2 / 1
John Kerry - George Bush -4 / -2


About the only "Good News bit here for Kerry, a tilt in his direction, though he remains at a deficit. Advantage: Kerry
Significant here, I think, though, is that Bush's support did not decline as Kerry's increased. If anything, Nader and "Not Sure" gave Kerry his boost, while Bush took no hit. I suspect that when push comes to shove, Nov. 2, Kerry will benefit through actually receiving some, most likely even most, but by no means all, of the votes currently declared for Nader, but I'm not at all sure which way "Unsure" is likely to go. Historically, "Unsure" tends to break for an incumbent if one is running. Given the spread between Kerry and Bush, Kerry needs to capture all of the Nader vote and all of the "Unsure" vote to prevail. That would be an unlikely eventuality.


Q.16 Even though you are not supporting Democrat John Kerry now, what are the chances that you might
support Kerry in the election for President in November -- is there a fair chance that you might support
him, a small chance, just a very slight chance or no chance at all that you might support him?

A fair chance 4 / 2
A small chance 4 / 4
Just a very slight chance 10 / 9
No chance at all 36 / 37


A tilt away from Kerry Advantage: None (See below, Q.17)

Q.17 Even though you are not supporting Republican George Bush now, what are the chances that you
might support Bush in the election for President in November -- is there a fair chance that you might
support him, a small chance, just a very slight chance or no chance at all that you might support him?

A fair chance 2 / 2
A small chance 5 / 3
Just a very slight chance 7 / 6
No chance at all 37 / 39


A tilt away from Bush Advantage: None (See above, Q.16)
Essentially, this looks to be more or less a wash; marginally fewer folks post-debate "Lean" toward either candidate. It appears minds are increasingly made up, with fewer folks both in the "Unsure" column and in the "Pretty sure, but maybe the other candidate" column.


Q.18 Now let me ask overall, do you think the country should continue in the direction Bush is headed or
go in a significantly different direction?

Different direction strongly 46 / 45
Different direction somewhat 7 / 7
Bush direction not so strongly 12 / 7
Bush direction strongly 35 / 41
Refused - -
Total Different direction 53 / 52
Total Bush direction 47 / 48


A tilt toward Bush Advantage: Bush

Rasmussen gives Kerry a 1-point bounce in today's release, Bush 49, Kerry 46 (vs yesterday's Bush 48, kerry 45), which includes only one full post-debate day of sampling. The commentary, however, mentions that yesterday's results were "similar" to those from the previous day. Also mentioned is that 6% of those responding said the debate had changed their mind, with Kerry getting a slight edge, 3% now voting for Kerry, 2% for Bush, and 1% who are now undecided.
Meanwhile, the Sept 30 Electoral College projection from Rasmussen shows Bush holding for an 8th consecutive day at his high-for-the-year 213, while over the same period has steadily fallen from 207 to his current 167 ... his lowest of the year. In mid-July, Kerry enjoyed a 254/197 advantage. Since first crossing the 200 mark in late August, Bush has trended steadily upward.

Over at Electoral-Vote, the current map show Kerry with 238, Bush with 296, vs yesterday's Kerry 221, Bush 276, so that's a gsin for both, Bush up 20, Kerry up 17, reflecting modest shift in Battleground State trendings.

Tradesports has Kerry up and Bush down a couple, though Bush maintains a slightly-better-than-3-to-2 lead at 60.6/38.0.

At IEM, Kerry's WTA Composite is at 38.2 vs 62.5 for Bush, remaining a 3-to-2 Bush advantage despite recent Kerry gains/Bush declines.

Its really too soon after the debate to determine what, if any, lasting effect there might have been. I'm reminded that Gore was touted immediately post-debate as the clear winner, a perception which changed over the next few days, and that Perot was widely seen to have won his first debate, possibly even his second. Has the momentum shifted toward Kerry? I would think it optimistic at best to consider that such might be the case. We shall see.

All in all, I believe this all shows that very little really has changed, and that while Kerry has, at least momentarily, narrowed his deficit, Bush has strengthened marginally among a number of key internals within various polls. The top line "Who ya gonna vote for" figure gets the Media attention, of course. It has tended to fluctuate across a relatively narrow range, though with a consistent, essentially narrow, Bush lead, whatever the momentary magnitude of that lead. Now, this is conjecture on my part, but bear with me a bit, please. I think the "Who ya gonna vote for" answer given to pollsters may tend to be something of a snap decision, "mood at the moment" thing, subject to being pushed a bit one way or the other with that morning's headlines. On the other hand, I believe the answers to the internals tell a stronger story, and will, in the voting booth, have a stronger effect on voter decision than tham any recent headlines. If that is so, and if things continue to trend as they appear be going, there isn't as yet much good news at all for Kerry.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 06:43 pm
Newsweek poll shows Bush's lead has evaporated:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6159637/site/newsweek/

Quote:
By Brian Braiker
Newsweek
Updated: 6:04 p.m. ET Oct. 2, 2004


Oct. 2 - With a solid majority of voters concluding that John Kerry outperformed George W. Bush in the first presidential debate on Thursday, the president's lead in the race for the White House has vanished, according to the latest NEWSWEEK poll. In the first national telephone poll using a fresh sample, NEWSWEEK found the race now statistically tied among all registered voters, 47 percent of whom say they would vote for Kerry and 45 percent for George W. Bush in a three-way race.

Removing Independent candidate Ralph Nader, who draws 2 percent of the vote, widens the Kerry-Edwards lead to three points with 49 percent of the vote versus the incumbent's 46 percent. Four weeks ago the Republican ticket, coming out of a successful convention in New York, enjoyed an 11-point lead over Kerry-Edwards with Bush pulling 52 percent of the vote and the challenger just 41 percent.


Just one poll, of course. Here's hoping more show the same...
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 06:48 pm
What every (god fearing) catholic needs to know.
***************


Detail of Michelangelo's "Last Judgment."
Sistine Chapel, Rome
Introduction
As the 2004 United States' presidential election approaches, it is necessary for Catholics to prayerfully examine the available candidates and issues in the light of the teachings of the Catholic Church. In the 2000 elections, polls showed that a majority of those who identified themselves as "Catholic" voted for a presidential candidate who openly and clearly supported the "right" of mothers to murder their unborn children. The modern plague known as legalized abortion claims millions of victims annually.

As it appears that a number of American voters either do not understand the immense gravity of this evil, or do not comprehend the spiritual consequences of supporting its continuation, the following information is offered for consideration.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 06:50 pm
It's a sin to kill one fetus, but it's okay to kill over 10,000 innocent Iraqis - many of them children in a war that was never justified. Vote Bush the murderer; what's 10,000 Iraqis vs one American fetus?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 07:36 pm
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
nimh wrote:

Since this bloody computer won't reinstall Acrobat Reader,

what os are you using nimh?

W98 ...

Soz, cool!

If another couple of polls show the same, expect the Republican campaign (surrogates) to get really nasty ...
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 07:45 pm
I cautiously informed with A. tonight if she was going to vote ... 'pparently not. Wasted few words on it but seemed to consider the whole thing fubar. Just totally disaffected with America and the politics.

In 2000 she was still pretty fierce, threatened her bf with a sex boycott because he was going to vote Nader ... <grins>

Well, a lot happened.

That by ways of an unscientific sample of one, re: Americans abroad. On the other hand I was in Greenwoods the other day and two Americans were agitatedly discussing at the next table about all the things they were doing, parallelly, to get the vote out this year, and how many people they'd newly registered, the atypical rush of interest they'd experienced. Both fiercely Democrat.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 07:45 pm
nimh, wipe out every vestige of Acrobat Reader ... find-and-delete all "Adobe" files and folders (unless you have and use other Adobe apps, of course). Once all "Adobe" is gone, reboot and re-download Reader 6 and install it.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 07:52 pm
Hmm, but I'm using Adobe PhotoShop as well - and I installed it from a borrowed CD I no longer have, so I'm a bit hesitant about uninstalling it ...
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2004 08:39 pm
OK, cool. We can prolly still fix it, but I think we prolly oughtta do it somewhere other than on this thread.
0 Replies
 
 

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