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If you were a bookie... Polls and bets on the 2004 elections

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 07:14 am
Lash writes:
Quote:
Didn't Teresa Heinz say Kerry was sorta gross today. ....she doesn't like sex with him, or something. My daughter was laughing about some weird statement...


Teresa is one of a kind all right. Its pretty easy to detect from body language that she and John don't like each other all that much. She made all the news this week by referring to the Democrat opponents as 'scumbags'. But then, she did provide the one memorable sound bite from the Democrat convention: "Shove it!"

Do you think a candidate's wife can really influence the polls and/or thevote in any way however?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 08:43 am
Foxfyre wrote
Quote:
Do you think a candidate's wife can really influence the polls and/or the vote in any way, however?


Logic would tell me no. However, you must remember there is a large politically ignorant segment of the voting public in the US. Consider this likeability not issues may be one of the deciding factor in this election.
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 11:17 am
au1929 wrote:
Foxfyre wrote
Quote:
Do you think a candidate's wife can really influence the polls and/or the vote in any way, however?


Logic would tell me no. However, you must remember there is a large politically ignorant segment of the voting public in the US. Consider this likeability not issues may be one of the deciding factor in this election.


Yup, no question Bush is more "likeable" than Kerry. Same was true with Gore.

And that does indeed determine who one votes for. My Mother-In-Law is a staunch Republican but does not LIKE Bush. But she liked Gore and likes Kerry less. So, she says, she will stifle her gag reflex and vote for Bush again.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 11:19 am
Funny, my mother said the same thing to me on the phone last night - she believed that more women would vote for Bush b/c he's more 'likeable,' no matter what his policies are.

I have a hard time understanding this point of view - I thought the issues were important... but in reality it's more like a popularity contest..

Cycloptichorn
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Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 11:23 am
Current Presidential Betting Line as of 21SEP04


Republican Party
2/5


Democratic Party
2/1


BOLD marks current front runner on odds line.

Last set of odds on 17 SEP 04 showed the following:

Republican Party
4/9

Democratic Party
2/1

Odds are getting longer and longer for the Democratic Party

LINK
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 11:35 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Funny, my mother said the same thing to me on the phone last night - she believed that more women would vote for Bush b/c he's more 'likeable,' no matter what his policies are.

I have a hard time understanding this point of view - I thought the issues were important... but in reality it's more like a popularity contest..

Cycloptichorn


Yup, that it is. Laughing
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 12:45 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Just out - the 1st of this cycle's Battleground Polls, Sept 20 '04: Bush 46%, Kerry 39%


On the other hand, that was the three-way result, which included 14% who were undecided.

Narrow it down to a two-way race and suddenly a lot more people made up their mind - and the Bush lead narrowed proportionally:

Bush 49%
Kerry 45%

Again, suggesting that what Kerry is mainly suffering from in the national polls right now is often people moving from his column to that of the undecideds - not actually to Bush's. Means they might be a little bit easier to win back than when they'd just settled their mind on Bush, period.

Still, even the above still comes down to a 6% 'bounce' for Bush since last month though. And those Mason-Dixon state polls do look awful, thats for bleedin' sure. 10% behind in West-Virginia ... damn.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 12:47 pm
Better they peak now than in Nov, nimh...

Cycloptichorn
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 12:51 pm
Oh, this is the pre-peak peak.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 12:56 pm
Yeah, no.

Not with the situation in Iraq getting worse.

Cycloptichorn
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 01:57 pm
Its good when you get a pre-peak peak ... lotsa pre-peak peaks. And then perhaps a post-peak peak before settling down ...
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 09:41 pm
http://i.timeinc.net/time/cartoons/20040917/4.jpg
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2004 10:02 pm
No noise here about today's polls which show things tightening up? Odd ... I'd have thought there'd have been at least some notice taken.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2004 10:12 pm
What was different about today's polls? Of course the only one I really saw was Rasmussen and it was pretty much same old same old.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2004 11:10 pm
An MTV poll favored Kerry heavilly, and Zogby Interactives showed a lessening of Bush momentum in The Battlegrounds. A couple of captive partisan polls were favorable toward Kerry, though all are at odds with the consensus and the indicated trending. I figured somebody here would be talkin' 'em up.

On the otherhand, I figure none of this particular crop of polls are likely to be representative of much of any real significance.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2004 01:04 am
Well the MTV poll is probably about as accurate as that AOL straw poll don't you think? Kerry has finally taken on James Carville and Paul Begala as campaign consultants and this will no doubt be beneficial to him. I suspect it will be too little too late but anything can happen over the next six weeks.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2004 01:48 am
I notice some of the poll-analysis sites have dropped Zogby Interactive from the polls they integrate into their calculations ... not Zogby's conventional polls, just the Interactive. There's an article at RealClear Politics discussing their decision to do so.

The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel has an article mentioning that both ARG and Zogby Interactive's results appear anomolous, ARG showing a tie, ZI showing a 2.4 (47.9 B/50.3 K) Kerry lead, while the average of 4 other comtemporaneous polls show a 53.2/42.2 Bush lead, the largest lead, 14%, coming from the Sept 21 release (52 B/38 K) from Badger Poll, an In-State only academically-run poll which has a pretty fair track record, the smallest lead being that shown by MSNBC/Mason Dixon's Sept 18 call of 46/44 Bush. Leaving the AI and the ARG in, the average works out to a 49.5/44.2 Bush lead.
Dunno as I think there's really a double digit Bush lead here in Wisconsin yet, but there is probably a solid 7-to-9 point lead any way you look at it, with upward momentum.

I haven't really looked at the other Battleground State polls with an eye to the effect ZI results have on them, but I think I'm gonna. Even with ZI figured in, the averages in the Battlegrounds almost universally favor Bush; he's lost none, picked up several, and closed the gap in almost all the rest, while Kerry has shown no gains to speak of anywhere, and even has lost a little ground in states that were solid Gore in 2000. The announcement today that his campaign is ceasing advertising and pulling or reducing staff in 4 states he'd been fighting for is not a good sign for him.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2004 05:09 pm
Well, whoa, we lost a lot of stuff in this thread ... some good posts and links by Timber, an interesting article by Au that newly inspired Soz, and I posted an update of my graphs ... well, what to do. The graphs are here, though - but there's newer data again still.

The very last bit of new info is hopeful: IBD/CSM/TIPP actually have Kerry in the lead, 46% to 45% among likely voters, with the candidates tied at 44% each among all registered voters.

All the other recent polls are not so happy though: Gallup has Bush in the lead by 8-13% (depending on whether you take the likely or registered voters sample, and the two- or three-way race); ABC/WaPo has Bush up by 6-7%; and Pew has Bush up by 8%. Whereas Bush's lead is diminishing in the Gallup and (slightly) in the ABC poll, it's actually widening in the Pew poll. Most of these polls are now three-way only btw - if I have a free day I should really rethink my graphs.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2004 06:01 pm
Interesting. I'd noticed this too, but they (he?) actually researched it.

Quote:
federalreview.com :
IS BUSH'S SUPPORT SOFT? ARE UNDECIDEDS GOING TO BREAK FOR THE PRESIDENT?

Bush's lead in the Composite Poll's meta-analysis of national polls holds steady this week, up a mere 0.1 point over his lead from last week. In fact, Bush's bounce from the convention of 5-6 points has remained steady and currently shows no signs of weakening, right as we prepare for Kerry's next big opportunity to move the numbers - this Thursday's debate. [..] Bush leads in the traditional battleground states by 2.8%. Bush leads in the 2000 Bush states by 12%. Kerry leads in the 2000 Gore states by 8%.

There's something interesting in the polls over the last three weeks while Bush has held his lead. While Bush has lead by double digits in some polls, FoxNews has shown the race closer since the convention with Bush leads coming in lower than the average of other polls, by 2 points on Sept 8 and by 3.4 this week. And in each poll, FoxNews also reports a greater number of undecided voters. Could it be that pollsters who push "leaners" to answer get better numbers for Bush than pollsters who are content to find undecided voters show a closer race? So, I reviewed all polls for the last three weeks and compared the number of undecided voters to the level of support for each of Bush and Kerry. As you seen in the below chart, as undecideds decrease in a poll, both Bush and Kerry's support increases - as you might expect. But Bush's support increases more rapidly. Ranging from a low of about 45 if there are 12% undecided to a projected high of 53% with no undecideds (projection is a least squares linear progression, represented by the line in the below chart). Meanwhile, Kerry's support ranges from about 42 to 45, a much smaller increase.

What does this tell us about undecideds and how they may break? Well, the Republican spin is clear - the undecideds are showing a tendency to break heavily for the President. But the spin you might expect from Democrats is probably more accurate and more relevant to campaigns trying to figure out where the race stands today. "Leaners" are both less solidly behind their candidate and, probably, less likely to vote. Thus, a greater proportion of Bush's voters in the latest polls may be soft.

While that should give some hope to Democrats, they should still be concerned that Bush still holds a lead even when poll victims aren't pressed for whom they lean toward. At the same time, Democrats can hope that this soft support can be turned. And the debates will give them that opportunity - while Bush tries to solidify the "Leaners'" support.

http://www.federalreview.com/images/undecided.jpg
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2004 06:09 pm
That's interesting...

Meanwhile, I also found the breakdown of what percentage leads in what states informative -- I hadn't thought of it that way before. Obviously, Bush is going to win some states, probably a lot of them, and if in a state he is going to win anyway he has a 20% lead, well, whatever. While it may affect the national poll numbers, what is important is the lead in the battleground states, and 2.8%...? That's all? That's encouraging.
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