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If you were a bookie... Polls and bets on the 2004 elections

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 06:06 pm
[beams... then looks suspicious]

Yeah, agreed about hullaboo. What a mess (again.)
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 06:39 pm
Indeed, the Gallup poll seems "weird" with Mr Nader gaining support at the expense of Mr Bush. That doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? The slightly more recent poll (Univ of Cin) is probably
closer to reality, with it being pretty much a dead-heat in OH when we factor in the MOE (margin of error).
Mr Edwards has been unleashed to campaign in the South. It will be interesting to see what effect he has in his own state of NC along with VA and TN. If he does connect, this race is over. -rjb-
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Aug, 2004 10:51 am
The CBS poll with its data on the subsample of vets may be the reason why Kerry is going on the attack over the SBVT ads after all ... or perhaps its the last Annenberg Survey, about which CNN wrote:

Quote:
From CNN.com:

"Meanwhile, a new survey suggests the ad about Kerry's service medals is reaching a wide audience.

More than half the country has seen or heard about that ad, a survey by the University of Pennsylvania's National Annenberg Election Survey found.

The ad, began airing in battleground states August 5. But the survey of more than 2,200 people between August 9 and August 16 found it was the heavy news media attention that gave the ad its reach.

"The influence of this ad is a function not of paid exposure but of the ad's treatment in free media," said Dr. Kathleen Hall Jamieson, director of the survey, in a written statement. "The advertisement has received extensive coverage, particularly on conservative talk radio and cable news channels, and has been the subject of some attention in broadcast news as well."

Of all people polled, 59 percent believe Kerry earned all of his medals, while 21 percent believe he did not. Responses fell largely along party lines -- more than three-fourths of Democrats believe Kerry earned his medals, while 59 percent of Independents do, and only 39 percent of Republicans.

and the NYT:

Quote:
The University of Pennsylvania's National Annenberg Election Survey also found that 44 percent of self-described independent voters found the ad at least somewhat believable.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Aug, 2004 09:42 pm
realjohnboy wrote:
Indeed, the Gallup poll seems "weird" with Mr Nader gaining support at the expense of Mr Bush. That doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? -rjb-


Actually, it might be a phenomenon that we will see more and more.

We keep forgetting that about half the voters don't vote in any election. Any independent, even Nader, draws from both people who would vote for someone else if the independent wasn't running, or people who are so turned off by the process that they would not vote if the candidate were not running.

It could be that after 2000, any of Nader's supporters who are drawn to the Democrats at all, even as a second choice, have decided to go ABB, (Anybody But Bush), leaving Nader with the people who would not vote at all if he were not running, and the few Naderites who would go Republican as a second choice. There were some, you know, LOL. Very Happy
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Aug, 2004 01:34 pm
That could certainly be, keltic. The ABB attitude is pretty strong, I think.
I started a thread awhile ago called something like "I'm in play, I guess" commenting on the fact that my state of VA is getting close to being a toss-up for the first time in decades. Other folks from other states responded with observations.

I mentioned that I had been called by a polling company. Usually I don't answer the phone unless I know who is calling but I did this time and the monotone voice did the survey: "If you had to vote today..." and "Do you strongly approve, somewhat approve..." and so on for several minutes.

Then the interviewer got more casual, asking me about my age, my education etc and then made this offer: Would I be interested in participating in a round-table discussion of issues sponsored by PBS, the League of Women Voters, MacNeil/Lehrer on Oct 16th? I said maybe.

Today I got a letter saying (paraphrasing) on Oct 16th a select group of residents will discuss what's at stake in the upcoming election, and we are pleased that you have agreed to participate.
I will be talking with fellow citizens about America's role in the world, national security and about US jobs in a global economy. I will receive a packet of background material that is being sent providing me with "balanced information about the topics..."
This PBS Deliberation Day exercise, according to the letter, will be happening in 17 cities in the US.
Free breakfast and free lunch plus $75 plus part of it may appear on VA PBS and there will be a compilation on national PBS.
I doubt that I will do it, but it is amusing. -rjb-
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Aug, 2004 03:45 pm
Oh cool, rjb, you should do it! Who knows, you're a voice of reason, never know what might happen or what you might coincidentally effect ...

Plus, itd be a curious kinda experience, no? You could write one of your evocative storylets about it ... ;-)
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Aug, 2004 04:25 pm
Cool maps of voting by district in 2000 for Wisonsin, New Hampshire, Ohio and New Mexico in this NYT "Interactive Graphic"
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Aug, 2004 06:04 pm
There's no comparable data from before, but despite Rasmussen's word choice I'd consider these numbers bad news for Kerry on the impact of the SVFT story ... Perhaps it is wise that he's gone on the counterattack, after all:

Quote:
47% Have Favorable Opinion of Kerry Military Service

August 21, 2004--A Rasmussen Reports survey found that 47% of America's Likely Voters have a favorable opinion of John Kerry's military service. The survey, conducted as the Kerry campaign began fighting back against charges raised by the Swift Boat Veterans, also found that 36% have an unfavorable view of the Senator's tour of combat duty.

As you would expect, there are significant partisan and ideological divides on this topic. Sixty-nine percent (69%) of Democrats have a favorable opinion of Kerry's service along with 22% of Republicans and 46% of unaffiliated voters.

Seventy-eight percent (78%) of Americans have read, seen, or heard news stories about "a group of veterans raising questions about John Kerry's military service." [..]

Thirty-nine percent (39%) of Likely Voters believe that Kerry is telling the truth about his time in Vietnam. Another 31% believe he is exaggerating the truth. Only 15% say that he is lying about his experiences.

Among those not affiliated with either Republicans or Democrats, 34% believe Kerry is telling the truth, 33% believe he is exaggerating the truth, and 15% say he is lying. [..]

A Rasmussen Reports survey conducted earlier this year found that 46% believed George W. Bush had told the truth about his National Guard service while 25% disagreed. [..]
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 01:47 pm
LOL ... there's such a dearth (dearth?) of substantial polls at the moment, David Wissing starts his blog's entry with, "Since pollsters appear to have gone on strike" ... and launches into a description of "Seat Guru", which has "information such as the leg room, reclinability of the seat, proximity to the restrooms as well as more general information" of "just about every single plane for every major air carrier".

Mr. Green
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 05:07 pm
Real John Boy:

Do the show! If nothing else, you will have gained some insight into how TV works in regards to politics.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 04:02 pm
Finally a new poll. Looks none too good. Its from Investors Business Daily/Christian Science Monitor.

Its got Bush and Kerry locked. 44 each. Mind you, just two weeks ago, Kerry had a 6 point lead in this poll: 49 to 43.

Good news I guess is that Bush seems locked, as in the CBS poll, under a 44% maximum. Bad news is that Kerry apparently can so quickly lose to the "not sure" category again what he just gained last time - like losing 5 points now in two weeks. His numbers seem volatile, suggesting he's hardly really convinced the persuadables in the middle.

Again, Bush's "ceiling" suggests they might fall to the incumbent in the end after all. But considering the trouble Kerry seems to be having keeping 'em from week to week, they might just as well stay home. Or be swept up in the Republican Convention fever next week after all.

Interestingly, if you figure Nader in, the volatileness gets less. In the 3-way race, compared to two weeks ago, Bush gained 1, Kerry lost 2, Nader remained stable. Suggests (though all this is well within the MoE) that its partly the Naderites whom Kerry loses as swiftly (no pun intended) as he gains 'em.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 04:46 pm
"Democratic pollster and Kerry advisor Mark Mellman is trying to set expectations for Bush's post-convention bounce", Daly notes. Debunking comes courtesy of Daly too:

Daly wrote:
Quote:
"Now it's Kerry's turn. In a new memo, pollster Mark Mellman says Bush heads into the Republican National Convention "in very weak position." To beat the typical incumbent slide of four points between the convention and Election Day, Bush "will need to be garnering 55% of the two-party vote after his convention. Anything less than that and the President will remain in grave political danger."

From the time of his convention and the election, Bill Clinton slid zero points in his support level according to Gallup. From the time of his convention and the election, Reagan slid zero points in his support level according to Gallup. From the time of his convention to the election, George H. W. Bush slid three points in his support level. From the time of time of his convention to the election, Jimmy Carter gained two points in his support level. From the time of his convention to the election, Gerald Ford gained three points in his support level. From his convention, Richard Nixon lost two points. The average works out to… zero.

For what it is worth.
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 09:49 pm
That poll seems to show Kerry pulling ahead, falling back in a tie, pulling ahead, falling back to a tie.

At no point does it show Bush going ahead, though.

http://www.pollingreport.com/images/TIPPtrend.GIF

I suspect that just by coincidence, this poll never seems to hit the median-it always swings back and forth between the plus or minus 3 extremes. So Kerry either ends up with a tie or a six point lead-nothing in between. Very Happy
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Aug, 2004 07:05 am
Another rare poll, another depressing one.

LA Times now has Bush actually up by three: 49% to Kerry's 46%. Last month, LATimes had a 2-point lead for Kerry, 48 to 46.

Job approval for Bush is also pretty high, 52%, tho its true that LAT has had above-average approval rates for him lately.

Alarmingly, though, the 3-point Bush lead is based on a sample of 39% Dems and 32% Reps - a distinct oversampling of Dems, thus.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Aug, 2004 12:55 pm
Well, the polls are getting less rare, perhaps because the pollsters want to stake out a pre-Convention reference point.

They already all show the same though: Bush pulling even with Kerry. A pre-Convention bounce, so to say.

This time its Fox (yes, I know). A 4-5 point Kerry lead (three weeks ago) shrinks to a 1-point one.

Interestingly tho, again its Kerry losing points to the "Not sure's" - Bush practically isn't gaining any. See below. Thats the silver lining here. Is it a "ceiling" in his support and will we see the same at/after the Convention?

Perhaps, but another indicator says perhaps not. Comparison of the numbers is problematic, because as of now Fox shifted from a registered voters to a likely voters sample for job approval too - but Bush does suddenly get a much higher approval rating. 51%, compared to 44% three weeks ago. Disapproval went down 5 points to 43%. Again, whether that signals a moodshift the past 3 weeks or merely the difference between the likely/registered voter samples, we dunno.

2-way:
Kerry 45 (-3)
Bush 44 (+1)
Other/Not Sure 11 (+2)

3-way:
Kerry 44 (-3)
Bush 43 (no change)
Nader 3 (+1)
Other/Not Sure 10 (+2)

Bush job approval:
Approve 51% (+7)
Disapprove 43% (-5)
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Aug, 2004 04:03 pm
Busy day today, eh?

The newly released bipartisan Battleground poll, done by a Republican and a Democratic pollster & sponsored by the GWU, shows Kerry with a slight lead against Bush, 49% to 47% - a week and a half ago.

That was practically no change (Kerry up a point, Bush down a point) compared to late June.

With Nader, its Kerry at 48%, Bush at 47% and Nader at 3%.

The poll has both candidates attracting equal numbers of waverers, because before the follow-up question to "leaners" the numbers were 44, 43, 3.

Australian paper The Age remarks:

Quote:
Kerry showed little movement in the head-to-head matchup with Bush after the Democratic National Convention last month in Boston [..]

But he has solidified support among key groups, including blacks and union voters, according to the bipartisan Battleground Poll, and is now running even with the incumbent on strength of support.

The poll found that 84 per cent of voters said they had made a definite choice for president, compared with 64 per cent who said that at a comparable time in the late summer of 2000. [..]

The poll found that evangelical Christians, a Republican-leaning group, have been contacted by campaign workers at a higher rate than blacks and Hispanics, who tend to lean toward the Democrats. Lake said that meant Democrats needed to push hard to match the Republican outreach.


In good news for Bush, the poll also had his job approval at 52%, disapproval at 46%. Two months ago that was 51% to 48%, so a slight uptick there.

Meanwhile, Gallup (which at the beginning of this month was sharply out of sync with most other polls by showing Bush in a 3% lead when the others had him 5-7% behind) has a fresh poll - with Bush still in a 3-point lead.

Numbers are unchanged in fact: Bush 50%, Kerry 47%.

Not much different with Nader in the picture: Bush 48%, Kerry 46%, Nader 4%.

USAToday notes:

Quote:
President Bush enters his convention week holding a slight lead over Democrat John Kerry and regaining ground he lost after the Democratic convention on the key issues of handling terrorism and Iraq, a new USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll shows. [..]

Bush dominated on personal traits such as "honest and trustworthy" and "stands up for what he believes in." But Kerry continued to lead Bush when people were asked who would better handle taxes, education, Medicare and the economy. [..]

At the same time, the poll found that most people, 63%, think Kerry is definitely or probably telling the truth about his military service. Half say Bush is very or somewhat responsible for the ads the group is running, although Bush and his campaign have denied any involvement. And 56% say Bush should denounce the ads. [..]

The Democratic convention focused squarely on Kerry's heroics in Vietnam and his support among veterans and retired military brass. He closed some gaps with Bush on security issues immediately afterwards, but the new poll shows those gains vanishing. Among the findings:

• Bush leads Kerry 49%-43% on who would handle Iraq better. Kerry was ahead 48%-47% right after the convention.

• Bush leads Kerry 54%-37% on who would handle terrorism better. Kerry had risen to 41% after his convention.

• Bush leads Kerry 54%-34% on who people think is "a strong and decisive leader." Kerry had halved that lead to 10 points right after the convention.


More good news for Bush in the favourability numbers - his now is at "54% [..] his highest since April. By contrast, Kerry's 52% was his lowest since January."

His job approval rates do not offer the same kind of good news for him though (tho they're not bad either): with 49% approving and 47% disapproving, his net margin is actually 3% smaller than two weeks ago (51/46) - tho thats still better than the numbers from three weeks ago (48/49).
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Aug, 2004 04:29 pm
I'm not really surprised by this. This has been sort of a dead week, with all the focus being on Kerry's Vietnam service and not much substantial news items from Iraq reported until today.

Nimh, if I may ask, how much do you believe the news has/has had an effect upon the polls that you post up here? Care to conjecture?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Aug, 2004 06:07 pm
These guys are not dumb. Notice how effectively they have pulled attention away from the albatross of Iraq (the whole pie - dead soldiers, Abu Ghraib, the costs, international disdain) through three strategies:
1) 'turnover', which is maybe 99% presentation and 1% substance. No more briefings from the commanders in the Green Zone. Huge reduction in media attention.
2) the amazing disappearance of Donald Rumsfeld
3) full frontal on Kerry using an issue which is not merely just a smear, but a smear ambiguous enough to hold attention and discussion for a substantial period.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Aug, 2004 06:22 pm
I'm getting worried about the depression that is evidently overtaking Nimh. He is a good guy, agreeable, lucid, reasonable and generally very well informed - if a bit misguided in his tastes as refards American politics. The race is close and the weakness of the Democrat challenger is everyday becoming more telling.

Bush will win and the world will survive. There may be a bit of teeth gnashing in old Europe, even in some parts of Canada and New England. But every rose has its thorns for some.
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Aug, 2004 06:25 pm
The ABB is wearing off.

They're taking a look at the guy who wants the job.

He doesn't look too good.
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