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If you were a bookie... Polls and bets on the 2004 elections

 
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 09:48 am
nimh wrote:
Craven de Kere wrote:
nimh, do you think that maybe if it were a different candidate, Bush's 80 million ad burst might have simply done the characterization differently?

sozobe wrote:
I think the most pertinent point is that the 80-million-machine would have been targeted differently.

About the argument that Kerry's benefited so little from all the disastrous news and publicity for Bush because, in turn, he was the target of a ruthless "80-million-machine".

Not to be anal about it, but if you really want to make a realistic assessment about this, you've got to first add that Kerry himself spent $45 million in the same time.

So its just a $35 million, not an $80 million difference thats supposed to have outbalanced all the advantages you would have expected Kerry to derive from the Bush admin's Fallujah, Abu G., 9/11 Commission etc PR disasters.

Meanwhile, you gotta wonder about where that $45 million went (emphasis mine):

MSNBC wrote:
a real drop from 68 percent in the NBC/Journal March survey.


Nimh, with all due respect, I can't make any sense out of that.

What the heck is the 35 million supposed to be?

Nobody's asserting that the 85 did it's trick by itself, just that with a different person it would have been used differently.

Kerry's money has nothing to do with it, and even if it did the 35 million figure is something I can't find a reasonable explanation for no matter how hard I try.

Anywho, the what ifs aren't as interesting to me as my next prediction:

Between now and the 10th, Bush's popularity will increase.

Let's see if I am right.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 10:28 am
Craven de Kere wrote:
Kerry's money has nothing to do with it, and even if it did the 35 million figure is something I can't find a reasonable explanation for no matter how hard I try.

The Bush campaign spends $80 million on making the Dem candidate look like one thing. The Dems spend $45 million to make it look like the Dem candidate is not that thing - or that he is, in fact, another thing. Balance in impact of "imaging": -$35 million. Thats pretty much as simple/istic as the concept was.

I admit to using it to make another point as well, aside from the Kerry vs Edwards one. Namely that a lot of posters rhetorically balance all the bad news for Bush in the last two months with the Bush ad campaign. As in - true, Kerry would have scored with all that negative news for Bush, but you shouldnt forget that on the other side of the equation there was this 80-million-dollar juggernaut to tear him down - with that in mind, its a miracle he even kept equal to Bush! As if that juggernaut wasnt also already countered with a Dem one at least half as big.

Craven de Kere wrote:
Anywho, the what ifs aren't as interesting to me as my next prediction:

Between now and the 10th, Bush's popularity will increase.

Let's see if I am right.

Will be hard to verify. Most polls dont come that fast in sequence. So it'll be an apples vs oranges comparison - compare today's CBS poll with the Gallup poll of the 10th, for example.

I try to counter that by taking the average of all polls within a ten-day span, so at least you end up comparing, say, the CBS, Harris and ABC polls of the past ten days with the WSJ, Pew and Quinnipiac polls of the next ten days. Still going to be some swerving tho.

The one poll you could use to check your prediction is the Rasmussen tracking poll. But keep the MoE in mind - two of 'em, one for Bush and one for Kerry ;-)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 10:31 am
nimh wrote:
The one poll you could use to check your prediction is the Rasmussen tracking poll. But keep the MoE in mind - two of 'em, one for Bush and one for Kerry ;-)


So - before the past results get filed away into the premium section of RR, this would be your "zero-line" of today to start measuring from: Razz

Bush 45% Kerry 46%

Bush Approve 49% Disapprove 51%
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 12:03 pm
nimh wrote:

The Bush campaign spends $80 million on making the Dem candidate look like one thing. The Dems spend $45 million to make it look like the Dem candidate is not that thing - or that he is, in fact, another thing.


I only skimmed the second half of your post but I think it said something in line with my next impression:

That Kerry didn't really seem to do much about getting out some other message.

My impression is that Bush pre-empted it.

But that might have to do with me being in a stronghold state, I don't remember any Kerry ads here.

Quote:
Balance in impact of "imaging": -$35 million. Thats pretty much as simple/istic as the concept was.


But that only makes sense (for the comparison of Dems) if the other dems would not have had it.

Quote:
As if that juggernaut wasnt also already countered with a Dem one at least half as big.


I think I get your point. I don't lay all Kerry's woes at the feet of the 85 million.

My point was that it was a well spent 85 million, that was predicted by many pundits and that you and I spoke about here (not letting Bush get the first impression).

All of my feelings on the Dem candidates reflect what I see as a very powerful and very skilled team in the Whitehouse.

The money they have allowed them to start earlier and get out a first impression.

I think they could have done that with any of the dems and the mention of the 85 here was just that if it were a different candidate it would have targeted that candidate.

Anywho, I'm all about the future now:

Quote:
Will be hard to verify. Most polls dont come that fast in sequence. So it'll be an apples vs oranges comparison - compare today's CBS poll with the Gallup poll of the 10th, for example.


Yeah, but it's a really frivolous guess. You'd laugh if you knew why I say so.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 12:06 pm
nimh wrote:

So - before the past results get filed away into the premium section of RR, this would be your "zero-line" of today to start measuring from: Razz

Bush 45% Kerry 46%

Bush Approve 49% Disapprove 51%


Cool, but to be honest, my dates are too picky.

I am, seriously if frivolously, predicting a small upturn between today and about the 7th.

The tenth was just to give it some time for polls, but I dunno if any polls will reflect the small period I wanna guess on.

Either way, what I am talking about would not last more than a few days unless it becomes part of an overall upswing.

So my next prediction is that the more visible Saddam is, the better Bush will do (barring unforseens , e.g. he gets away).
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 12:16 pm
How about predictions on the trial?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 12:23 pm
Quote:
John Kerry

Total Receipts: $148,912,737
Total Spent: $120,406,095
Cash on Hand: $28,506,641
Debts: $7,448,722
Date of last report: May 31, 2004

George Bush

Total Receipts: $215,357,708
Total Spent: $150,289,570
Cash on Hand: $110,261,092
Debts: $322,383
Date of last report: May 31, 2004

Opensecrets.org



So ... looks to me as though, to the beginning of June, Kerry's camp has been spending like Deaniacs. $21,057, 919.00 available (Cash-on-Hand minus Debts) remaining from reported reciepts $148,912,737 versus The Incumbent's $109,938,709 Available, for a somewhat greater than 5-to-1 advantage . Recently reported (too lazy to look up a link ... I'm sure those who care have seen the articles anyway), Kerry just passed the $175,000,000 fundraising mark. Generously tacking that additional nearly $26,100,000 onto Kerry's Available Funds puts his current total at a tad under $47,158,000, for a disadvantage of roughly 2.33-to-1, taking into account neither additional spending and accrued debt nor additional Republican receipts. What this appears to mean is at this point, for every dime Kerry has to spend prior to the Democratic Convention and the automatic kick-in of the Federal Presidential Campaign Spending $75,000,000 Post-Convention Limit, Bush the Younger can match with about a quarter apart from having, due to the later date of the Republican Convention, several more weeks over which to conduct unrestricted spending. While money per se doesn't win elections, undeniably it is a critical factor. Recalling the Dean Campaign's financial meltdown earlier this Spring, I would posit the Kerry Campaign has considerable cause for discomfort, given apparent, even striking, similarities.
Quote:
(Kerry's) campaign's travel budget has also vastly increased, enabling it to expand the size of its paid staff and add paid campaign workers in swing states. Cahill said the infusion of money had helped her recruit talent like Terry Edmonds, who directed Bill Clinton's speechwriters at the White House.

There were also smaller expenditures. In May alone, the campaign spent $10,500 for photographers at its events, more than $200,000 to dispense Kerry hats and T-shirts and other promotional material, and at least $6,500 for parking.

Nor to be discounted is what to do about the Home Equity Loan Kerry took out late last year.
Quote:
Kerry Has to Decide Soon on Repaying a Big Loan

By GLEN JUSTICE

Published: June 30, 2004


WASHINGTON, June 29 - Among the many strategic decisions facing Senator John Kerry in the coming weeks, one may hit closer to home than others, whether to use campaign contributions to repay the $6.4 million that he lent his campaign or pay it off over time using his own money.

A provision in the new campaign finance law requires Mr. Kerry to pay back the loan shortly after the Democratic convention next month if he plans to use campaign money ...
.

And then there is
Quote:
Bush Camp Cut Back on Spending Last Month
By GLEN JUSTICE

Published: June 19, 2004


WASHINGTON, June 18 - President Bush sharply slowed his campaign spending last month, paying out just $22 million in May as he scaled back his spring television advertising campaign, according to a report filed today with the Federal Election Commission.

Which rather indicates "You ain't seen nothin' yet".

If I were a Kerry supporter, I'd be worried along about now. I'm not a Kerry supporter, and while I remain concerned and vigilant, I sure as hell ain't worried.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 01:45 pm
Craven de Kere wrote:
My point was that it was a well spent 85 million, that was predicted by many pundits and that you and I spoke about here (not letting Bush get the first impression).

All of my feelings on the Dem candidates reflect what I see as a very powerful and very skilled team in the Whitehouse.

The money they have allowed them to start earlier and get out a first impression.


Absolutely. True.



(ok, so now i've gotten really curious about the "frivolous" thing underlying your prediction. come on man, whats your " inside tip" ? Razz)
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 01:49 pm
Nah, nothing 'inside', it's just 7/4 and saddam. Betcha it's worth a blip. Dunno if the polls can register something so small though.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 02:08 pm
Craven de Kere wrote:
Nah, nothing 'inside', it's just 7/4 and saddam. Betcha it's worth a blip. Dunno if the polls can register something so small though.


This one does;

http://128.255.244.60/graphs/Pres04_VS_KERR.jpg
http://www.biz.uiowa.edu/iem/images/iem_logo.gif 2004 US Presidential Election Vote Share Market

An alternate view, this Winner Takes All, from the same source:

http://128.255.244.60/graphs/Pres04_WTA.jpg

It should be noted the accuracy, or mean deviation from actual outcome, of this particular indicator consistently, over its slightly more than 12 year history, has been far greater than that achieved by any conventional poll. The current average of the Winner Takes All series is roughly 54% Bush/46% Kerry.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 03:23 pm
New Wall Street Journal / NBC poll out. Coverage here (I already quoted a bit on Kerry, above):
NBC poll: President 'down but not out'

The two-way results, not included in the article by the way, have Kerry and Bush both at 47%. The three-way results have Bush with 45%, Kerry 44% and Nader 4%.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 05:36 am
nimh wrote:
New Wall Street Journal / NBC poll out. Coverage here (I already quoted a bit on Kerry, above):
NBC poll: President 'down but not out'

The two-way results, not included in the article by the way, have Kerry and Bush both at 47%. The three-way results have Bush with 45%, Kerry 44% and Nader 4%.


More from that WSJ/NBC poll (from pollingreport.com):

"In general, do you approve or disapprove of the job George W. Bush is doing as president?" (June 25-28, compared to May 1-3 and March 6-8):

Approve
45% (47%) (50%)
Disapprove
49% (46%) (46%)

"Looking ahead to November's presidential election, do you feel George W. Bush deserves to be reelected, or do you feel he does not deserve to be reelected?"

Deserves
45% (45%) (49%)
Does Not Deserve
50% (49%) (48%)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 11:51 am
From Federal Review:

Quote:
Before we get to this week's polling data, I thought it would be interesting to take a look at the polling data we have seen since March of this year to see who is more Bush favorable and who is most Kerry favorable. So, I compared the results of each polling organization to the mean results for all polling organization for each particular week. I then averaged each pollster's results to see how far off each pollster is from the average values of contemporary polls.

The most pro Kerry poll is CBS, and the most pro-Bush is Investor's Business Daily / TIPP, but the disparities are minor. On average, CBS is 2 points more favorable for Kerry. Thus, if the average of all polls for a week shows a Bush lead of 3, then CBS is likely to show a Bush lead of only 1. Investor's Business Daily has been 2 points more favorable to Bush on average. In the below list, I have not included results for Harris (which showed a 10 point lead for Bush just last week) because I only have 2 Harris polls included so far. Similarly, I have not included LA Times (2 polls), Quinnipiac (2 polls), AP/Ipsos (1 poll) or NBC (1 poll).

Poll .. Diff from Mean / No. Polls
CBS .. -1.7 / 5
ABC Washington Post .. -0.9 / 4
Zogby .. -0.7 / 5
Rasmussen .. -0.4 / 13*
Newsweek .. -0.3 / 4
CNN/USAToday/Gallup .. 0.0 / 8
FoxNews .. 0.9 / 8
IBD/CSM/TIPP .. 2.1 / 5

* Rasmussen polls daily, and we average the polls weekly, so 13 weeks are included and analyzed.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 07:30 pm
One thing to keep in mind ... the changing ethnic make-up of the nation.

Quote:
Matthew Dowd, the chief strategist for Mr. Bush's re-election campaign, calculated several years ago that if the Republican ticket were to take the same percentages of the Hispanic, black and white vote in 2004 as it did in 2000, it would lose the popular vote by three million ballots and the Electoral College. In 2000, Mr. Bush received 544,000 fewer votes than Al Gore but won the Electoral College."

No wonder they're after the Hispanic vote so stridently ...
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 07:57 am
Warch now for a big polling numbers boost for the Kerry-Edwards ticket. I figure the media exposure will border on the obsessive for a few days, putting the names firmly in The Public Consciousness, and folks tend to respond to what they hear about. The Convention coverage should carry the boost forward through the beginning of September. Far more significant than the polls, IMHO, will be the the futures trades and the gambling books ... I'm gonna be watching those. I think the trending there now through Friday will be quite interesting.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 07:58 am
The Bush camp was predicting a 15 point boost...
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 09:39 am
Fifteen points!? No ******* way! Society much too polarized to be swayed so massively one way or another. Is *my* prediction.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 09:41 am
Yeah, 15 seems high. But a boost would be nice!

<high-fiving nimh on choice of Edwards for VP.>
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 10:06 am
Sorry, they are predicting "up to" a 15 point boost.

But they are probably intentionally overstating it to portray any boost as expected.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 11:13 am
I'm sure the Republican strategy incorporates a lessening of expectations, or a doom-and-gloom factor likely of unachieveable magnitude, allowing them to point back and say "Wow! Look! We're doing nuch better better than we thought we would!"
Its prolly worth noting here that Dukakis enjoyed a 15-to-20 point lead over his opponent at this respective point in that campaign.
0 Replies
 
 

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