Sleeping and death.

@Belial phil,

Belial;89503 wrote:

Do they feel similar?
Now, obviously death will feel different depending on the type of death.
Let's assume something relatively painless, in which the person simply slips into death.
Would that be essentially the same as sleep?

I've been wondering this because, sometimes when I go to sleep I think about death. I feel like by giving myself to unconsciousness, I might as well be giving myself to death, albeit a temporary one in all cases thus far in my life.

Could very well be. The thing about sleep is that it happens spontaneously - POOF! And then there is no-time and no-space. Nothing like the awake state. And you are in there for as long as you are there - there is no time - and then POOF! you are awake. Kind of amazing that the same mind can bring itself in and out of two completely different states. How does it do it? Why?

Rich

1 Reply

@Belial phil,

I think being asleep and being dead are quite different experiences. For a human, of course - we demons do neither sleep nor die.

You may be surprized to read this from a demon who worked in soul accountance for centuries, but I've only once seen a dead soul. It was in temptation class, the teacher brought it to illustrate what a human is. A pathetic little thing in a jar, frightened and dried out of all hope after a century of torture.

Since I've been sent to earth, I've observed some sleeping humans. It's quite different. They alternate between deep sleep and dreams. The latter seems to be kind of a conflict simulator - to test how the human would behave in this or that conflict situation. A bit like a flight simulator in pilot school. Some of the conflicts were very intense - I understand you call them "nightmares" - but the worst nightmares were nothing compared to what experienced the little thing in the jar.

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@Zogg the Demon,

Zogg the Demon;89873 wrote:

I think being asleep and being dead are quite different experiences. For a human, of course - we demons do neither sleep nor die.

You may be surprized to read this from a demon who worked in soul accountance for centuries, but I've only once seen a dead soul. It was in temptation class, the teacher brought it to illustrate what a human is. A pathetic little thing in a jar, frightened and dried out of all hope after a century of torture.

Since I've been sent to earth, I've observed some sleeping humans. It's quite different. They alternate between deep sleep and dreams. The latter seems to be kind of a conflict simulator - to test how the human would behave in this or that conflict situation. A bit like a flight simulator in pilot school. Some of the conflicts were very intense - I understand you call them "nightmares" - but the worst nightmares were nothing compared to what experienced the little thing in the jar.

Well Zogg, you are certainly making this forum very interesting for me.

Yes, I have heard it discussed that dreams are sort of a lab of trying out different ways to handle conflicts.

Rich

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@Belial phil,

I would say that being dead -- truly dead, beyond the point of ever coming back -- is not an experience at all.

1 Reply

@Belial phil,

I'm not sure death is something I can really conceptualize. They way I understand it, it'd pretty much be as Aedes said - nothing. One can't be aware of anything if they're not aware of... well, anything

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@Aedes,

Aedes;89892 wrote:

I would say that being dead -- truly dead, beyond the point of ever coming back -- is not an experience at all.

Perhaps i should have worded it better,
I was thinking more on the state of the mind just prior to death and just prior to sleep.

1 Reply

@Belial phil,

If you want to know what it's like to die, introduce your 5HT-2 receptors to a heavy dose of a tryptamine compound.

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@Belial phil,

If birth is the beginning of experience, Death is the end of experience.
You did not suffer before birth you will not suffer after death.
There is no reason to fear death except it means the end of new experience.
Sleep is not at all like death. General anesthesia would be closer to near death.
Dying is often a natural process, not necessarily painful at all, a slow lapse into unconsciusness and the cessation of life and experience.
Sleep deprivation can lead to death, interestingly?

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@Belial phil,

If I might make a comment here. Considering we can only observe death, no one can possibly know what death is, for certain. Most are so steeped in what lies beyond, and that is what serves as the catalyst that spurs our interest. Now if you don't mind, let me stop time for a moment and put it in "limbo" which I think is what sleep and death are.

One is for the soul, one is what that soul has experienced as we dream and imagine what those experiences have been; are the "sweet dreams" coming from a peaceful nights sleep as the soul is no longer tormented, or are they turbulent, tossing and turning as the soul is not so peaceful? I think as long as we interpret death as an end or finite, we create that hell that is represent in that tossing and turning created by that very fear of what lies beyond and usher in that death for those experiences, past and present that are, more or less, beating us up saying "snap out of it". Death is reaching a point of no return and the "soul snaps out" and goes in for an "overhaul" so to speak, which can't be defined so let's just call it limbo.

How long one stays in limbo depends on how much damage has been done and whether one is the cause or affect of those damages as it relates to others. If one is truly a victim and death was affected by others they remain in protective custody as those who were not go right back until they do finally do snap out of it and understand life is truly eternal and what goes around truly does come around as they are place in that state of being in which they can no longer cause that damage and become a victim such as those in which their greed for life imposed on others as they walk in those very same shoes.

The body does not have to be "physically dead" to experience death for there are those states of protective custody here that serve that purpose such as what can be defined as coma of any other term that indicates a detachment from this reality.

When we think, it is our soul talking to us. When the mind is at rest we don't think so much and a state of peace ensues. When we think out loud, such as every one does when they are alone (though many will not admit that they do) it is the soul putting emphasis on something we did, should have done, or something we didn't do. When one truly thinks about it, that is exactly what one does when they are "talking to themselves".

Now let's dig a little deeper and observe those who care not if they are alone when they talk to themselves for they are more detached and virtually pay no attention to others even being around such as might be observed in those mental states we consider "ill"; such as more severe degrees of autism, schizophrenia, turrets syndrome. ADD and ADHD are the beginning stages of such detachment as it indicates a difficult time devoting attention to this reality and it's dictates.

They also are in "protective custody" and serve a burden to this reality teaching us all a lesson that will eventually allow us all to "SNAP OUT OF IT".

Deep sleep or REM state is that dream state and those rapid eye movements are indications of how much the soul is going through. Now the only reason we go into deep sleep is because we truly need the rest and the REM is indicating it's effort to catch up as the mind assimilates all that has been experienced. In other words we are experiencing far to much to fast an we "wear out". Such as can be indicated when anyone says, "I have a lot on my mind". What a pity, IMO. If people only knew how so very "hunky dory" everything is when the mind is at peace as they will eventually learn they will not need as much sleep as they once needed as being awake and conscious can be a very pleasant and peaceful experience and it is only our thoughts that disturb it causing us to need rest from it all. I am of the opinion death is no different; we just wear out. The body doesn't die, we kill it and the soul goes in to get another one. Let's hope yours is a newer one that is incapable of becoming a lemon.

That's for your attention, I hope it tied up a loose end for you.
William

1 Reply

@Belial phil,

Belial;90014 wrote:

I was thinking more on the state of the mind just prior to death and just prior to sleep.

There are people who have done scientific research on near death experiences if you're interested.

1 Reply

@Zogg the Demon,

Zogg the Demon;89873 wrote:

I think being asleep and being dead are quite different experiences. For a human, of course - we demons do neither sleep nor die.

Interesting, your claiming demonic ties, that you neither sleep or die...have you not understood Why Your God sent you to Earth? That it is written that your are held here for Judgment? Perhaps your not really a demon...lol

Quote:

You may be surprized to read this from a demon who worked in soul accountance for centuries, but I've only once seen a dead soul. It was in temptation class, the teacher brought it to illustrate what a human is. A pathetic little thing in a jar, frightened and dried out of all hope after a century of torture.

I thought Jesus was the Soul Accountant, not any demon, they too will be tried at Judgment soon for their hope has diminished because of their sins. Are you not familiar with the 2nd death for humans? And what Jesus said would come upon the fallen Angels along with Satan as the time comes for his end also at the earth becomes the kingdom of Christ as it is written?

Quote:

Since I've been sent to earth, I've observed some sleeping humans.

you are funny, real demons are not sent to earth to observe sleeping humans, you have a funny sense of humor and you have me rolling in laughter! Very Happy

This tells me you are not a demon and you're way to funny.. Laughing

You've just been summerized and evaluated by a philosopher :whistling:

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@Belial phil,

Belial;89503 wrote:

Do they feel similar?
Now, obviously death will feel different depending on the type of death.
Let's assume something relatively painless, in which the person simply slips into death.
Would that be essentially the same as sleep?

I've been wondering this because, sometimes when I go to sleep I think about death. I feel like by giving myself to unconsciousness, I might as well be giving myself to death, albeit a temporary one in all cases thus far in my life.

Death is not an event of life. The moment of your death is the end of your life, therefore, you can not experience death in your life. You can only experience dying, the gradual journey towards the end of your life, more well known as living.

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@Belial phil,

Sleep is a state of minimal brain activity. Consciousness appears to consist in the electro-chemical activity of the brain, not just its inert cellular structure. So, as the electro-chemical activity of the brain reduces, so the conscious mind loses its integrity and the conscious experience becomes less lucid, making ordinary rational thought, deduction and induction very difficult and inconsistent. Though the brain is still minimally active during sleep, so it is still minimally conscious; as a result of sensory deprivation, imagined experiences or evoked memories become the main features of conscious experience in sleep. However, brain activity normally passes below a certain level in certain stages of sleep so that the conscious mind is altogether evaporated and one has no spatio-temporal awareness or self-awareness at all.

Death, taken as the wholesale destruction of the brain, presumably results in the destruction of mind and hence it must resemble the state of zero consciousness that sufficiently deep sleep induces - it occurs to me that unconsciousness cannot feasably 'resemble' anything, but you know what I mean. Similarly, one might say that the state of eternal unconsciousness that preceded birth is exactly the same as the unconsciousness that follows brain-death; they are both due to the lack of a physical and active brain to sustain the conscious mind. The unconsciousness of sleep is only different in that it is the temporary induction of unconsciousness: the conscious mind is retrievable since the physical structure of the brain remains intact and electro-chemical activity can rise back to levels sufficient for consciousness (or rather, a physical structure remains intact - a new mind exists upon awakening).

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@Belial phil,

I don't mean to be rude, but of course not. In sleeping, you dream at least occasionally. In death you have no consciousness whatsoever, no subconsciousness either. People think that when you die you see black, but you don't. YOU DONT SEE AT ALL.

1 Reply

@Hi My Name Is,

Hi! My Name Is:;117314 wrote:

I don't mean to be rude, but of course not. In sleeping, you dream at least occasionally. In death you have no consciousness whatsoever, no subconsciousness either. People think that when you die you see black, but you don't. YOU DONT SEE AT ALL.

Hello Hi and welcome to the forum. You seem to be speaking from a voice of experience? If you know what you say is true, please tell us what death is? Since you say there is no consciousness or subconsciousness and you see black.......! How do you know it is black; with no consciousness at all? That is an assumption based on observation from what we think it is, nothing more.

William

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@William,

William;117348 wrote:

Hello Hi and welcome to the forum. You seem to be speaking from a voice of experience? If you know what you say is true, please tell us what death is? Since you say there is no consciousness or subconsciousness and you see black.......! How do you know it is black; with no consciousness at all? That is an assumption based on observation from what we think it is, nothing more.

William

being one is dead the dead KNOW NOTHING and they certainly don't talk or walk....we can only assume and other than what we are told about death through the bible we have no knowledge because dead men can talk or walk....they are D E A D .

A deep sleep that only the Lord wakes you up out of.

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@William,

William;117348 wrote:

Hello Hi and welcome to the forum. You seem to be speaking from a voice of experience? If you know what you say is true, please tell us what death is? Since you say there is no consciousness or subconsciousness and you see black.......! How do you know it is black; with no consciousness at all? That is an assumption based on observation from what we think it is, nothing more.

William

I was simply referring to the fact that in death you're not supposed to see anything because from all the things i have heard in death you dont see, hear, feel, taste, or smell. All your senses are cut off. So in allowance, I agree that it might be black, but I would not see it.

P.S. I love the way you're politely telling me to shut up. Very Happy

1 Reply

@Hi My Name Is,

Hi! My Name Is:;117626 wrote:

I was simply referring to the fact that in death you're not supposed to see anything because from all the things i have heard in death you dont see, hear, feel, taste, or smell. All your senses are cut off. So in allowance, I agree that it might be black, but I would not see it.

P.S. I love the way you're politely telling me to shut up.

Hello Hi, viewing death with our eyes, we see them in the coffin, not smelling tasting or conscience of anything any longer...a deep sleep that stays until the breath is placed back into the body of the dead, and they face their Creator God.

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@me2lord,

me2lord;117769 wrote:

Hello Hi, viewing death with our eyes, we see them in the coffin, not smelling tasting or conscience of anything any longer...a deep sleep that stays until the breath is placed back into the body of the dead, and they face their Creator God.

Or until they don't face a creator 'god' and their observing consciousness remains non-existent for the rest of eternity. The non-existence of our selves can not and will not be fathomed appropriately by us. It's similar to explaining depth to a 2-Dimensional shape - outside the capacity of our brain-computers to understand.

---------- Post added 01-06-2010 at 12:40 PM ----------

"In death you have no consciousness whatsoever, no subconsciousness either. People think that when you die you see black, but you don't. YOU DONT SEE AT ALL." - Himynameis

"Hello Hi and welcome to the forum. You seem to be speaking from a voice of experience? If you know what you say is true, please tell us what death is? Since you say there is no consciousness or subconsciousness and you see black" - William

William, look a little closer at your conversation. Can't you see that he said you DON'T see black, and that you DON'T experience anything? You're charging him with a crime he didn't commit. I hope you're not a detective.

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Sleeping and death.

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