science and maths

Yeah the wife never actually hates the husband for beating her. She probably hates it when he abuses her but she is not looking at that, just the husband. Those are different aspects, like I said before. You can love the person but hate their actions. These are two completely separate things.

I can say I hate school but I love learning. Hating school denotes something separate from learning that is not liked where as the learning separate from school is loved.

But what happens when the wife gets so fed up with her husband beating her that the love turns to hate and she leaves him? Surely for the transition to happen the two are running along side together until they morph into one, (hate), making them the two opposites of emotion to begin with, they start off as seperate until they finally come together and end up as one or the other, in this case hate.

Yeah, I agree. I am suspicious about the earlier conversation because I get the impression that the emotion of love is allowed to be elevated to a whole different arena then the rest of the emotions. As if it doesn't play under the same rules as the other emotions. That it somehow exists separate from the other emotions but in reality it is no different than them.

Love can influence you make bad decisions. Sometimes those decisions are deadly. How is it that two people can be in love at one time only to kill each other down the road? This for me shows how fickle the emotions are and how much we allow them to influence our behavior.

Well that's the point Krumple, that you allow it to influence your behaviour, after you've killed the person you once loved you regret it because it was done in the heat of the moment or it comes with far more consequences then it's worth.

Just a side note here: Although those in love often do meet a bad end (in their relationship, if not otherwise) this doesn't necessarily mean that love, itself, was the cultprit. I often see that those most-intensely in love have, as baggage, other intense emotions that may or may not have anything to do with the love-aspect, itself.

uh... hope that made sense.

And I'm saying responses aren't that discrete. It's difficult at times to lump things into one of those three categories. But even if you could, where are you going with this? Sorry, I'm not quite following.



You're really not aware of any feelings between love and hate?



The question you pose is not a justification for, "And if love and like carried different degrees". We don't say we like and love sushi because these words are in the same category of expression, therefore making it redundant to include both. However, there are other categories with which one could express positive emotion. "I love this delicious, amazing sushi!" includes three positive expressions in one sentence, and an example like this isn't out of the ordinary. Thus, I really have no clue what you mean when you say:



"Like" and "love" can definitely carry varying degrees, and they often do. Love, generally, is considered of a higher affinity than like. One would be more inclined to marry someone if they loved them rather than if they just liked them, wouldn't they?

Read my post again, I was referring to battered wife syndrome, not beating one's wife (which is only hate and aggression IMO).

---------- Post added 09-01-2009 at 08:15 PM ----------

You're rationalizing here. Face it, people can be internally conflicted -- and you can probably prove that neurologically, it certainly presents itself in psychiatry often enough.

Why is it that you state my point and then disagree with me? Seems like you never actually read what I wrote.



Yeah and I covered that. Like I said, a beaten wife doesn't love and hate the abusive husband, she probably loves him yet hates his actions. They are different.

No you end up hating them Krumple believe you me. Ok you probably all guessed that I'm talking from experience. Ok you meet them they're an angel, you're young and stupid, you move in and leave your job, (stupid), and bam they got you and the abuse starts flying, you think they got problems and you stupidly think that if you give them a chance then at least you'll know, you love them and they got problems even when he's kicking you but after months and months you want to kill the selfish *** up and you leave if you can. Once you leave you realise that even though you would have married this guy, (if he was sane and stable), that he will never change and he's best left to live his miserable existence alone and he will, ha ha ha. Oh and you wish he were dead in the most horrible fashion. Btw if you haven't got a family to turn to then you are stuck with him, if you go to the authorites you'll be very lucky if they don't stick you somewhere worse like they did me and then you end up running back to where you came from because you'd rather be beaten then dead.

I've read all too much of it.

Whatever you say. Of course this syndrome has been studied, so you might want to look into where your intuition differs from reality.

And like I've said in a previous post, you seem unwilling to recognize that people can be internally conflicted. You who champion a purely biological explanation are ironically willing to oversimplify human neuropsychology.

Well I might be guilty of over simplifying the whole thing but it would be far worse to add or distort the explanation with things that are false or misleading maybe even imaginary.

I have studied the syndrome. I even have a personal experience with such a case. Several years ago I was driving with a friend and we witnessed a very large man dragging a woman down the street by her hair who was struggling to get lose from him. We stopped and offered the woman some sanctuary from the man after she managed to get lose but we were in a two seater truck so I opted to get out and allow the woman my seat. Mean while the man was removing a knife from his pocket and pursuing the woman and attempting to drag her back out of the truck but that wasn't going to happen. My friend had taken the woman to her parents house near by and then returned for me. We had a very in depth conversation with the woman and talked to the police. She was willing to file a report and press charges against her boyfriend. She said the reason he was so upset was because she forgot to wash some specific shirt that morning and he had been yelling at her all morning. She wanted to leave to get some peace from him but he pursued her and that is when we saw them.

So fast forward about six months or so and I get called up as a witness to give testimony for her trial against her boyfriend who was already charged two times prior for domestic violence. His past shouldn't be held against him though. Anyways here is the clincher, the knife he pulled out was not allowed evidence in court. The judge dismissed the evidence since no one could perfectly identify the knife. Because when the cops arrested him he was carrying three knives and there was not enough consistency with identifying the one he used. So we were briefed by both councils about NOT mentioning the knife during the trial. But get this, the woman even after told not to mention the knife, when asked if she would like to say anything else about the case, mentions the knife. The jury were taken back by this since there was no prior mention to them about any knife. She did this to throw a mistrial but luckily it didn't work. He ended up going back to prison since this was a parole violation.

Oh I should mention, she didn't testify for the prosecution, she changed her story and was a witness on his behalf. I know she wasn't actually physically harmed more than maybe a few bruises that day but who knows how bad it could have been for her. It is hard to say and easy to speculate. But I know that she was emotionally and physically abused by him yet still opted to protect him even when he was clearly guilty of domestic violence.

n = 1, and your anecdote however much of an impression it left on you doesn't even address the issue we're discussing.

What most regard as the major contributions of Freud and Jung is the idea that our mind operates at several simultaneous levels, and there usually is internal conflict. And they didn't just pull these ideas out of thin air, they developed them by systematically interviewing thousands of people. People can have mutually contradictory opinions and processes going on simultaneously.

Krumple, did you bother to find out why she went back to him? 9 times out of 10, they've got nowhere to go to, who the hell wants to live with their parents? Do you know if the parents home was safe? Because I'll tell you, families are not always safe and they keep secrets, most of the time women are better off with the husband then at their parents, parents can be more cruel then a man raising his fists.

I didn't have the opportunity to find out why. I was testifying against him and she wanted nothing to do with me that day. It wasn't exactly like I could stop by her home and find out.

If you don't know then how can you be dismayed that she went back, see you just dont know all the facts do you?

I know she went back because she told the attorney that she was reconciling with him during the trial.

You've misunderstood the question, i didnt say that you didnt know that she went back, what i said was you didnt find out why she went back!

How many different possibilities are there for her going back? It doesn't see very relevant to me.

If you don't see that it is relevant than there is no point in continuing this discussion, for one how about she hasn't got anywhere else to go.

---------- Post added 09-02-2009 at 09:14 AM ----------

You, like many other people think that by rescuing her this once and showing up to court is going to solve all her problems, that that's it, are you going to be there to hold her hand all the way? Hmm? Because it's very hard leaving everything that you know behind to go and live in a strange place with strange people who are alot less stable than you are, it makes me angry that you think it's so easy to just get up and walk away, why do you think she stays because she just loves the look of having a black eye on her face. You're so niave.

This thread is a bit off topic.

I completely agree with Krumple.

Positive, negative and neutral categorizes can pretty much map human emotions.
Love and like are both positive but have different values depending on who says it (the persons experience with the word) and what the person is referring to.

Because there is no concrete definition for everything, I can't say science and mathematics explains everything.
But it can most definitely explain human emotions.

I also agree that the way we experience feeling is not as "technical" as science may describe it as.
Well, perhaps it is, but our mind translates it into what we call feelings...