1
   

Is thinking overrated?

 
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2009 05:05 pm
@richrf,
Well I wasn't entirely kidding. While I have no desire to eat only pills, I recognize that research funded and applied by the MIC can often raise the ultimate distinction in the "Where's the beef?" divide between reality-based and magical or wishful thinking

Where are "qi"-based cyborg beetles? Or BCIs powered by "chakras"? How would you broadcast your contempt for intelligence to thousands of people on a "Consciousness" powered Internet? If an army powered by magical thinking were pitted against one powered by empiricism, who would emerge victorious, other things being equal?

What are the tangible products of your idle speculation rich?
richrf
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2009 05:13 pm
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;95648 wrote:
What are the tangible products of your idle speculation rich?


An interesting, healthful life.

Rich
0 Replies
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2009 05:19 pm
@richrf,
Frankly I think you're right boring, I'd disagree about the interesting part

Oh and hey, we were talking about gambling earlier:

Gambler's ruin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A good page to read for someone who gambles with his health
0 Replies
 
vectorcube
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 01:26 am
@richrf,
richrf;95377 wrote:
There really seems to be an overabundance of focus placed on the ability to think. Leaving the definition of thinking aside for the moment (I think most people will know what I am talking about), I have found that when I am not thinking I am at my best.

Examples: hitting a golf ball, playing tennis, practicing Tai Chi, playing pool, shooting baskets. dancing (definitely dancing), singing, playing the piano, drawing, relating to people, finding a healthy lifestyle, playing the stock market, etc. For all these activities, I am using feeling. It is sometimes called being in the zone. It is when I let go of the willfulness to do something, and let my natural body memory take over.

Memory is an very interesting phenomenon and I think it is much more than simple storage of information. And when body memory is permitted to flow, amazing things start happening like sinking eight baskets in a row, or running a pool table.

Anyway, I think that people are missing a lot if they spend their life relying on thinking. Feeling is another way to go. If you haven't been there yet, look for it!

Rich


Well, i think if you do read a nice book, ponder about a nice argument, and be amazed by an holy equation, then i do think it is useful to use your brain.
Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 07:58 am
@vectorcube,
richrf;95623 wrote:

I am not sure what this thing called "muscle memory" is all about. Not that I do not believe there is such a thing, but memory supposedly is in the brain - something that I would debate.


It's probably similar to what you have in mind when you say "natural body memory".

Essentially, it's your muscles having certain tendencies due to repetition.

Muscle memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
TickTockMan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 10:49 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas;95786 wrote:
It's probably similar to what you have in mind when you say "natural body memory".

Essentially, it's your muscles having certain tendencies due to repetition.

Muscle memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Yes. The term "muscle memory" is just a turn of phrase, exactly like richrf's original remark about "natural body memory." No one is suggesting that your muscles have memory in the accepted use of the word.

Here's another explanatory link:

What is Muscle Memory?

----------------------
0 Replies
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 01:11 pm
@richrf,
It's like training a BPNN. The memory is there physically, but it's subsymbolic and hard to make head or tail of it
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 01:31 pm
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;95859 wrote:
It's like training a BPNN. The memory is there physically, but it's subsymbolic and hard to make head or tail of it


Subsymbolic means that the constituents of whatever aren't representations on their own, right? Like, people call pixels on a computer monitor subsymbolic - if you picked one out, you wouldn't get the "big picture", or even understand the representation. How is this analogous to memories, though?
0 Replies
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 01:33 pm
@richrf,
Details of a memory (in this case a motor skill) are distributed across a neural ensemble

No one particular cell is responsible for the entirety of the memory
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 01:39 pm
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;95863 wrote:
Details of a memory (in this case a motor skill) are distributed across a neural ensemble

No one particular cell is responsible for the entirety of the memory


Well, then, this is similar to computer HD's, right? Each file is distributed across a technical ensemble, bytes here and there throughout different parts of the HD.

I don't know much about the brain's functionality. After reading these threads my appetite has really been wetted, though! Time I started learning!

It just blows my mind that I can consciously visualize one of these memories. Just wow.
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 01:46 pm
@Zetherin,
Zetherin;95865 wrote:
Well, then, this is similar to computer HD's, right? Each file is distributed across a technical ensemble, bytes here and there throughout different parts of the HD.


... not quite

The thing about the current generation of computers is that they all work with essentially serial data, with few exceptions. The brain is more parallel, distributed. It's hard to explain all the differences at once

Although computer files may be stored noncontiguously, they are still essentially long-ass strings of data

Zetherin;95865 wrote:
I don't know much about the brain's functionality. After reading these threads my appetite has really been wetted, though! Time I started learning!


*whetted

See The Engine of Reason, the Seat of the Soul

Zetherin;95865 wrote:
It just blows my mind that I can consciously visualize one of these memories. Just wow.


me 2
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 01:50 pm
@richrf,
odenskrigare wrote:

*whetted


Thanks for the spelling correction and the book suggestions. I'll look into these two immediately.

Quote:

me 2


*too

Smile
0 Replies
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 01:59 pm
@richrf,
The Computational Brain is also baller. It's basically the more advanced version of the other one (just one) I mentioned, The Engine of Reason, the Seat of the Soul written by the author's wife Patricia Churchland + Terrence Sejnowski

Huh, what else

I'm reading Cognitive Psychology and its Implications now. I tend to hate modern textbooks because of all the clutter; the margins are like 1/4 of the page and the layout is really noisy overall. This one is not like that at all. In fact it summarizes each and every section at the end which lets you know whether you can skip it. Very clear book ... read it for its design alone

In fact I should just start a thread about these kinds of things ...
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 02:04 pm
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;95868 wrote:
The Computational Brain is also baller. It's basically the more advanced version of the other one (just one) I mentioned, The Engine of Reason, the Seat of the Soul written by the author's wife Patricia Churchland + Terrence Sejnowski

Huh, what else

I'm reading Cognitive Psychology and its Implications now. I tend to hate modern textbooks because of all the clutter; the margins are like 1/4 of the page and the layout is really noisy overall. This one is not like that at all. In fact it summarizes each and every section at the end which lets you know whether you can skip it. Very clear book ... read it for its design alone

In fact I should just start a thread about these kinds of things ...


I think a thread would be a great idea. A collection of resources and knowledge amidst all the wild speculation I keep seeing regarding the brain and its functionality. If it were good enough, I'd recommend it to be stickied. The Philosophy of Mind subforum could definitely use it.

Gonna see if I can get these books cheap on amazon... I have a lot of free time at work now, so I'd like to read this stuff.
0 Replies
 
Arjuna
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 02:53 pm
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;95866 wrote:
The thing about the current generation of computers is that they all work with essentially serial data, with few exceptions. The brain is more parallel, distributed. It's hard to explain all the differences at once

Although computer files may be stored noncontiguously, they are still essentially long-ass strings of data

Data transfer and storage can be serial, but it still has to be amenable to becoming parallel to be used for anything. Don't microprocessors still have multi-bit registers?

"Being in the zone" is a phrase that describes doing something with an odd lack of doubt or turbulence... You can look at a painting and tell if the painter was in the zone... chinese water color paintings especially, because with that, the painter can't go back and fix mistakes. It comes, though, when there's been a lot of practice, so there's no struggle to master the medium... the inspiration just flows through.

Music people are different, though... when it comes to music theory. A friend was explaining to me what it actually means that Mozart could listen to a piece that someone else wrote just once and then play it backwards. I don't think my brain grew the part that can do anything with music theory.
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 03:01 pm
@Arjuna,
Arjuna;95879 wrote:
Data transfer and storage can be serial, but it still has to be amenable to becoming parallel to be used for anything. Don't microprocessors still have multi-bit registers?


Yes but processing is still essentially serial ... extremely bottlenecked in comparison with the brain
Arjuna
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 03:09 pm
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;95881 wrote:
Yes but processing is still essentially serial ... extremely bottlenecked in comparison with the brain

If you mean the commands are processed serially, yes I see. So you're saying that the brain can process numerous functions simultaneously? Like I can think about dinner while my brain is also regulating my blood pressure and so on? At one time, some people were tinkering with massively parallel microprocessors. I don't know what became of that. I think that computer science has gone into a semi-stall from previous success. People like what they've got. I wonder what will happen next... like in the next hundred years.

I meant hardware computer science, not software.
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 03:42 pm
@Arjuna,
Arjuna;95884 wrote:
If you mean the commands are processed serially, yes I see. So you're saying that the brain can process numerous functions simultaneously? Like I can think about dinner while my brain is also regulating my blood pressure and so on?


well, obviously

the least trivial thought is mind-blowingly parallel

Arjuna;95884 wrote:
At one time, some people were tinkering with massively parallel microprocessors. I don't know what became of that.


they're still around in various forms

[email protected]

as of now there are over 1.2 million [email protected] users

Arjuna;95884 wrote:
I think that computer science has gone into a semi-stall from previous success. People like what they've got


as a desktop computer user, I am content with a Dell Dimension 3000 running Windows XP from years ago (although I added Cygwin, MiKTeX, Python and some other goodies)

however, many research or military organizations are deeply unsatisfied with what you'd call von Neumann bottleneck

in fact you can find thousands of results for "parallel processing" or "distributed processing" under the .mil domain

Arjuna;95884 wrote:
I meant hardware computer science, not software.


computer engineering
TickTockMan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 04:16 pm
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;95887 wrote:

as a desktop computer user, I am content with a Dell Dimension 3000 running Windows XP from years ago (although I added Cygwin, MiKTeX, Python and some other goodies)


Well Hell, Odie, that's yer problem dude, you got a Dell. Trade it in for
a new Mac and life will make ever so much more sense!

Tick
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 04:34 pm
@TickTockMan,
TickTockMan;95891 wrote:
Well Hell, Odie, that's yer problem dude, you got a Dell. Trade it in for
a new Mac and life will make ever so much more sense!

Tick


No, no, no! This man didn't just say mac!!!! :poke-eye:
 

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