@richrf,
KaseiJin;77380 wrote: The study looked at 14 genes involved in pathways that can plausibly be related to mechanistic hypothesis of schizophrenia.
On page 504, they pointed out, when responding to the discussion question, "What do we learn from these results?" that, "First, we cannot rule out a role for any of these genes in schizophrenia. Many of the odds ratios for association are in a plausible range (1.10-1.23) for susceptibility effects but below what would produce significant p values in this sample of in the smaller samples used in previous studies."
One noteworthy point under the second thing learned, was, "Second, the results demonstrate the importance of large-scale, systematic tests of genomic hypothesis." This does ring very true, gathering the largest amount of information that can possibly be found when doing tests, or studies, is surely a good thing. At the bottom of page 504, running over to page 505 top, we find: "One caveat is that large-scale SNP arrays do not optimally cover every gene, so focused studies such as this one will still be needed for genes whose role in schizophrenia is supported by candidate gene, linkage, genome-wide association, or biological studies."
The journal Human Molecular Genetics (Vol 18 [14]) published on line on May 4, 2009) has an article which cites that study--The DISC locus and schizophrenia: evidence from an association study in a central European sample and from a meta-analysis across different European populations (Johannes Schumacher et. al)--and which states, "In order to detect additional schizophrenia variants, a meta-analysis was performed using nine schizophrenia samples from different European populations (50 SNPs, n=10,064 individuals maximun, n=3,694 minimum). We found evidence for a common schizophrenia risk interval within DISC1 intron 4-6(P=0.002, or 1.27). The findings point to a complex association between schizophrenia and DISC, including the presence of different risk loci and SNP interplay effects.
It has come up enough times to be clear enough, that genetics does come into play, along with environmental concerns, but the genetical input is very complicated a matter. The article Social Predictors of Psychotic Experiences: Specifity and Psychological Mechanisms (Schizophrenia Bulletin, Vol 34 (6) August 14, 2008; pp 1012~1020) has, "Importantly these variables include environmental determinants, although not to the exclusion of endogenous factors such as neurodevelopmental impairment or genetic vulnerability."
There are samples from the journal Schizophrenia Research which are careful to indicate cases where there is genetic influence, or not--such as Association Study of Three Polymorphisms in the Dopamine D2 Receptor gene and schizophrenia in the Russian Population Mikhail Monakhov et. al (Vol 100, (1-3), pp 302-307; March '08); Genetic Analysis of the Gene Coding for DARPP-32 (PPP1R1B) in Japanese Patients with schizophrenia or Bipolar Disorder (ibid, pp 334-341) [evidence shows no association here]; Association between PNPO and schizophrenia in the Japanese Population Shu-ichi Ueno et. al (Vol 97 (1-3), pp 264-270 [concludes that PNPOC may contribute to overall genetic risk]
Well, I have run out of time, even though I have lined up a number of other studies from Science, Nature, Nature Encyclopedia of the Human Genome, Journal of Neuroscience, The Society for Neuroscience website, Brain and Cognition, and Schzophrenia Research, and Scientific American which I had wanted to quote . . . however, the overal summary is that while some results are interpreted to put genetical association/cause of SZ at up to 80%, it is very likely over rated--and closer to around 50 or so may be end up being the final resting place, but it cannot be said that genes play no role at all.
Kj,
Your academic prowess is exceptional and duly commended. Your abiity to communicate is also exceptional of which I have noted on more than one occasion. The above embolden print is only to show the lack of definitiveness that is "science" and when it reaches certain levels of tolerance or that point in which it can be conclusively agreed by those in the scientific community as "workable" it becomes a reality in those medical processes we call 'cures'. Or so we think???????????????????????
Then after a time in public domain we descover "side affect"; enter the PDR (Physicians Desk Reference), a horror story in and of it self and we then need to "design medications" that offset those "cures" so forth and so on and so forth and so on all the while draining the economy of literally trillion's of dollars of revenue to say nothing of the confusion of the body itself in the overall distrubance it is going through mentally, physically, genetically and operationally.
Now, I will agree to the statement that certain maladies that are "considered" mental illness are genetic; which means by and large, not mentally capable of dealing with "reality". Without belaboring the point, I have mentioned how this has struck home with my daughter and am not going to elaborate further, but I will elaborte on my perception as it pertains to my life.
About 30 years ago shortly after I began to recongnize the unity of all things I became 'elated', 'euphoric', and to a point grandiose in that I felt a "confidence" in the understanding of "not being alone" and in protective custody, so to speak. In that "elated state of mind" I was diagnosed as a "MANIC DEPRESSIVE", though I have never been depressed in my life, in my opinion and that is what really matters to me regardless of what anyone else thinks, Period!
As far as I could conceive mania was "up" and depression was "down" and normal is right smack dab in the middle. As far as the medical community was concerned, like "PATCH ADAMS", I was "excessively happy". Ha. This reality is not prepared to deal with such "nonsense", and me, I figured anything that is unknown or whatever that could make me feel this "naturally good" can't be bad. Those folks are the ones who are nuts and I literally let nature take it's course. Now it gets a "little spooky".
To elaborate a little further, on a scale of 1 to 10 I concluded 1 being suicidal depression and 10 being pshychosis which is exploring the deepest darkest regions of the human mind and 5 being "normal", I have never been normal in my life, Ha. I perch at about a 7 in my calculations, but I have also seen and experience a 10. That's what is spooky. Big Time, spooky. Now back to the "excessively happy".
To me, I was going through a metamorphosis and was totally at ease with that myself, but I was at the same time becoming alienated from those whom I loved and cared for the most, my family who witnessed this "change" in me in that it was not the "me" they knew, coupled with the "expert opinion" of medical practioners who concluded;
(excessively happy) in this "reality" was a mental "disease". HMMPH!!!!!
Not all though, for in that industry, you have the "Patch Adamses" and the "DR. Jekyls'". I have had the "pleasure" to meet both on occasion. Now to offer you a better understanding of the confusion I was experiencing and the mixed emotions I was going through can be illustrated in the movie "Phenomenon" with John Travolta. A remarkable movie to the point I too did exactly what he did, except well before the movie was ever made, went into my back yard which contained 28 loblolly pines, after an "ice storm" and the air was filled with pine vapor and the needles all glistened with ice residue that gave the appearance of "twinkling", and declared outloud, "What is going on" as I look up into the night sky. Hmmh, talk abut serendipity!
Now letting nature take it's course takes an exceptional amount of faith, which means "no fear". You can't have both. One cancels the other out so I just let faith take over, as I for the very first time did what I inevitably do now, is just sit back and see what happens. A scenario that has happened often in my life, like I'm just along for the ride. Ha.
Without going into other details for they would be off topic, I was incarcerated for being mentally ill. You see Kj this world has got fear all figured out and has become quite accustom to dealing with it and I might add making huge profits from it too. It is not so much that we have figured it out as much as it is "playing on the fears" to reap huge profits. A catch 22 situation; though, from my perspective a situation we can "rise above".
Now at this point, it is necessary I make an essential clarification. I have never in my life threatened any individual other than that I was programmed to adhere to such as those disciplinary measures instructed as it relates to the rearing of a child; and I have never threatened my own life such as might be called suicidal. In those "dire strait" circumstances, we can be grateful for science, but those only serve as band-aids when relating to the overall understanding of what is "mental illness"?
Having said that, I was determned to see this through just maintaining that something that "felt this good" can be "insane". Now the "first incarceration was the most damaging in that I had to experience the affects of thorazine, haldol, and lithium that turned me into a "zombie" compared to what I had been all my life. Yuk!. Needless to say I didn't like that route and stopped the medications all together which is common among those who are force to take those depressive drugs. For those of you how find solace in the taking of those drugs, great; that is not me and I am not you for I have no idea of the curves this reality has thrown you. Which is some cases medication is a very good thing as it relates to the individual and those that individual comes into contact with. Stll it doesn't solve the overall problem, IMO.
It is known most MD's (manic/depressives) are cyclical. It took me fives years to go from the dibilitating effects of the drugs to reach that level of elation I had once experienced. Whew, I thought in the beginning, I had lost it forever. I hadn't, it was just "beat" into submission by the strength of the drugs. Needless to say the cycle began again, and the men in white came to take me away, again. (My wife wore the white coat) and I went voluntarily. How sad it is when someone is elated causes ones wife to become alarmed. I couldn't figure that out except that I was unable to work and hold up my responsibilities and that alienated us much to my regret. Now, though estranged, we are getting along better than we ever did all things considered.
Now back to the Dr. Jekyl's and Patch Adamses. Now those cycles of five years each happened 4 times all ending in incarceration; each lessening as I went. I began 'cheeking' medication on the second incarceration and stopped taking any medication at all becuase I knew I would "come down" on my own accord. The last cylcle was a little over ten year ago as I have learned to live with "elation" and keep it secret. Ha. The Dr. Jekyls' I have encountered over the years were egomaniac's who would not consider any opinion but their own and those who thought likewise though I was able to make some large dents into their protective ego's along the way in that I knew more about MD than they did in that I had "been there". Nothing like seeing for yourself. The "Patch Adamses" were real in that they truly wanted a better understanding and we got along famously.
Now what it means to be "psychotic" I will not go into for it is the extreme depths of fear itself and it is there the person we know as "satan" resides illustrated in the movie "BRAINSTORM" (Christopher Walken and Natalie Wood, unfortunately her last movie). It is the depiction of delving into the far reaches of the mind and use the secrets hidden there as a "Weapon of Mental Destruction". Another WMD, so to speak.
Kj it is not my intent to discourage your brilliant ability to learn and communicate; I just want to iterate science does not have all the empirical answers for many are beyond our understanding and will always be. My goal now in life is to bring some measure of peace and serenity to others so they will understand they are not alone and help them become less "disturbed" in their daily lives. I can only hope in some degree I am accomplishing that though there is much I don't know for I do rely on others to fill in those missing gaps. IMO, that is exactly why I am here communicationing in this global forum which has done exactly that in the year I have participated in them. I am truly thankful a "media" such as this exists. :a-ok:
William
