Yogi DMT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 10:53 am
@Yogi DMT,
Great post, i don't have the time right now, but i will definitely read and respond in the near future.
0 Replies
 
Yogi DMT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 04:29 pm
@William,
Quote:
First, the lyrics are not indicating who "you" represents so I am going to assume the "you" represents "society" at large, though in the mind of the writer, it could very well be anything, making it highly ambiguous and negative in it's over all concept and message the writer is trying to establish. (Why I emphasized the word) If you truly think about it, without being more definitive as to who "you" represents, only serves to promote a paranoia in general, as Caroline mentioned there are those who do not lie, steal and cheat.

Having said that, I think we must explore why "you" does such things as lie, steal and cheat in a broad sense for they are truly not "virtuous or tolerable" as the lyrics state and can be hidden behind such a word as virtue; of which, that in and of itself, has many definitions as I bring those to the fore:


--Moral excellence and righteousness; goodness.

--An example or kind of moral excellence: the virtue of patience. Chastity, especially in a woman.

--A particularly efficacious, good, or beneficial quality; advantage: a plan with the virtue of being practical.

--Effective force or power: believed in the virtue of prayer. virtues Christianity. The fifth of the nine orders of angels in medieval angelology.

--Obsolete. Manly courage; valor.

Perhaps you can identify the one you think the writer is referring to, IYO .


--- IMO the artist is talking about the complete *******s that we shouldn't tolerate. The people that lie, cheat, and steal their way through society or towards success. Not everyone is like this but at heart, many people are unfortunately. I wouldn't say he is talking about society in general but yes, probably a large part of society which is in fact composed of these inconsiderate and selfish people. Not to say all people are like this because some really do make a good effort to be a honest person.

The points you bring up about motive are definitely valid. To add, i believe the main drive behind intolerable acts are to gain success through an "easy" route. Success which can be financial success down to any other type of success. What it comes down to is people would see themselves benefit and get what they want at the sacrifice of others, which is the origin of the problem. Lying can be used to manipulate any situation to work for your own purposes along with cheating and stealing which can be used to gain wealth or other measures of success. Again, what you said before could possibly be the reason behind the intolerable acts but personally i tend to lean more towards gain and benefit at the expense of others.

Quote:
I am assuming you are referring to the GOLDEN RULE which states, "Treat/do unto other as you would have them treat/do unto you". (Treat others as you would like to be treated) The thing is Yogi, there are so many people who are clueless as to 'how' to treat other people. Talk about a word with many various definitions:

TREAT:

-- To act or behave in a specified manner toward.

--To regard and handle in a certain way. Often used with as: treated the matter as a joke.

--To deal with in writing or speech; discuss: a book that treats all aspects of health care.

--To deal with or represent artistically in a specified manner or style: treats the subject poetically.

--To "provide" with food, entertainment, or gifts at one's own expense: treated her sister to the theater.

--To "give" (someone or oneself) something pleasurable: treated herself to a day in the country.

--To subject to a process, action, or change, especially to a chemical or physical process or application.

--To give medical aid to (someone): treated many patients in the emergency room.

--To give medical aid to counteract (a disease or condition): treated malaria with quinine.

See what I mean. The "golden rule" can have many varied definitions and one that is the most popular and that is so very evident in this mixed up world is; "the one with the gold, makes all the rules" giving a hell of a lot of validity to those comments above regarding 'this society' and the role it plays in creating these "intolerant" consequence.

Now which one of the above definitions, IYO would you consider the most appropriate as to what "treat" means that would give the golden rule a better meaning? I most definitely have mine though I would have to alter a couple of the words in even that definition.


--- I see where your coming from and i should have been more clear. The manner in which i meant to use the word "treat" is to act or behave in a specified manner. And the context in which i used it is to treat other with respect, consideration, and all the other thoughtful qualities you want to be treated with.

And thank you for allowing me time to respond
0 Replies
 
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 05:54 am
@Yogi DMT,
There are exceptions in all things - that doesn't change the point.

The OP states that certain behaviors are important for collections of humans to successfully interact. I don't think that's much of a stretch; in fact, it strikes me as quite banal.

What I do very much like - and a point I think we've heard so much that we might have become immune to the message of the cliche - is the act as you'd like to have others act. One has to step outside of the me-me-me to make the translation from the thought to action.

... all in all, a good point I think
0 Replies
 
salima
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 10:03 am
@Yogi DMT,
hi yogi-
i love tool, by the way-one of my favorites, this song in particular, which has to be heard because the lyrics dont really do justice. the emotion is palpable...

to me, it is coming from the frustration of someone who has continually tried to live up to his own ethics and moral standards who finally realizes he is faced with a world in opposition to his values. and how to reconcile that? is he to give up his values? i think this is all a part of gaining maturity-it is a stage any ethical person will go through on the way to understanding and reaching a point where they can tolerate the intolerable.

there comes a time when one may see that we do not need to be lied to or stolen from if we are realistic-we can lock our doors and open our eyes and wait before taking everything we hear as being verbatim. and again, the word tolerate tends to imply that we can get along with something we dislike-to agree to disagree, basically. it does not mean acceptance. so i am tolerant of liars and thieves, but i do not accept that it is necessary or admirable or even efficient to resort to such behavior.

as a piece of art and expression it is a fantastic song-remarkable performance. but it doesnt have to be the end of the story...
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 11:52 am
@Yogi DMT,
Tolerance is what the makes the world go round, we are all different, rich in culture and identity, learn form your neighbour to love and grow, love and respect thy neighbour and you will get along peacefully and your children will live in under a free sun.
Yogi DMT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2009 07:27 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline;91324 wrote:
Tolerance is what the makes the world go round, we are all different, rich in culture and identity, learn form your neighbour to love and grow, love and respect thy neighbour and you will get along peacefully and your children will live in under a free sun.


Tolerance is very important but intolerance is also important. We need to let people know what is right and what is wrong, and we need to make it clear. Therefore we cannot tolerate anyone who lies, cheats, or steals because they are just doing such to benefit themselves at the price of others. Other than that, yes tolerance is a very important quality to master.
0 Replies
 
 

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