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Is Clarke/Kubrick's monolith really psilocybin?

 
 
Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 May, 2009 02:12 pm
@Exebeche,
Exebeche;65503 wrote:

Drugs (especially psychedelic ones) are sometimes referred to as if they could be used as tools of mind enhancement or catalysts of spiritual experience.


They can be used to such ends. But this is not so easy - gobbling down some mushrooms in your backyard will not cut muster.

Psychedelics have been used for ages in spiritual rituals. Outside of these rituals, a user will not gain from the drugs. The rituals involved are quite serious and appear to be productive. They are not to be taken lightly.

Ritual and recreational use are quite different. The Tim Leary trip is no good.

Exebeche;65503 wrote:
The dangers, even though mentioned, totally fall to the background compared to the incredible advantages that seem to get in reach.
The few words about the riscs do not have the same impact as the visions of unimaginable experiences being possible.
That's why i sometimes feel like i have to bring in a weight that adjusts the relations.


And it is important that you do add that weight.
0 Replies
 
Exebeche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 May, 2009 03:17 pm
@BrightNoon,
BrightNoon;65446 wrote:
Good thoughts all, but I just thought of a major problem...can't believe I missed it before. How could enhanced mental processing of this kind be inherited? Let's assume that an australopithicine ate some bad barley, tripped his monkey face off, learned alot, grew wise, and even became the favored male of the group, got tons of that sweet australo-tang and thus had a huge progeny. His children would 'inherit his brain' as it was before he tripped.

Very Happy
I like the way you describe it.
Your objection is totally right in terms of genetical progress.
However we don't necessarily have to interprete sympathiepains idea genetically.
Remember in A.C.Clark's novel it was the monolith that caused a significant leap of the ape's intelligence, meaning that something from outer space triggered the step to a higher consciousness.
This change doesn't have to be understood as a genetical change.
I'd rather see it actually as a little trigger in the apes mind being pulled, causing a huge chain reaction.
What Clark assumed to have come from outerspace certainly also could have been a trigger that grew on mother earth.
An ape having halluzinations and seing things from a different perspective could also have made the big invention, which in the film was using an object as a weapon.
Seeing this as an evolutionary step can be criticized but one can certainly argue that a terrestrial trigger is more likely than one from outerspace.
Personally it don't see a necessity of a spark that lightened the fire anyway, because it was a very slow process, and mother nature is patient.
But anyway if we want to believe that an illuminating spark was necessary, a psychedelic drug might come in just as handy as aliens.
0 Replies
 
Elmud
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2009 02:26 pm
@Sympathypains,
Reminds me of a time when i did some finish carpentry work for a lady years ago. After a portion of the work was completed, she informed me she had no money to pay for the work but,, she did have a large bag of mushrooms. Freeze dried. I let my cousin deal with her after that.
0 Replies
 
YumClock
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jul, 2009 02:21 pm
@Sympathypains,
So Spock's intelligence came from "doing a lot of LDS" way back in the day...
Exebeche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jul, 2009 06:45 pm
@YumClock,
Administrator - Please delete this post
0 Replies
 
urangutan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jul, 2009 08:36 pm
@Sympathypains,
Wow man, Pineapple Express here I come, so true, so true, I love you man.

The first time I had smoked the Afghani black, it was after a long period of smoking Thai Buddha. Imports were great here in the Eighties. We went to a restaurant for some food and sat in the foyeur waiting for our tubs of take-away. I actually don't eat after I have smoked, clag never felt right as a child.

Sitting there, eyes in glazed mode, a procession, I mean bigger than an entourage, lady after lady, dressed like I dream of Jeanie, following each other past me. Keep the libido in check, it ain't real no way there is a troupe of women dressed like this, it's an illusion. I spent all that time avoiding eye contact with these lovely ladies, not even looking at their luscious figures, it couldn't be real.

Egyptian restaurant in Carlton, belly dance classes on the second floor. Yes, I am still kicking myself some twenty-six years later but I wouldn't reject a couple of grams of that black putty.
0 Replies
 
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jul, 2009 08:42 pm
@Sympathypains,
Sympathypains;63544 wrote:
I find the theory interesting, and wonder if there is any legitimate scientific curiosity regarding this.
Here is where to look if you're interested in what science is doing on the question:

PubMed Home

I have institutional full-text access to many articles from the national library of medicine, so if you find an abstract in there that you're interested in exploring more I can try to pull the article.
Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 06:52 pm
@Aedes,
BrightNoon;65018 wrote:
Psychdelics are great for philosphizing, but then again philosophy is not great for survival. If some damn dirty ape tripped on some mushrooms a few hundred thousand years ago, I'd bet his friends stole his food while he laughed at the sky, and then he starved to death without bearing children.


Going back to this question, I think there is another aspect to the use of psychedelics that was mentioned, but not in context of this particular question. If you recall my statements about highly ritualized use, often for medical purposes, then we have a clear reason as to why psychedelics can be useful for survival. Native Americans, both north and south, have ritualized psychedelic use for God knows how long, and as far as I know, this practice is, at least to some degree effective. The US government even allows certain tribes to step around anti-drug laws for their ritualized use of peyote, for example.
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 07:13 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Whether or not they are helpful for survival, cultural integrity and continuity certainly is. Of course many cultural practices can be dangerous, unfair, or deleterious too, so it has to be case by case.

Didymos Thomas;75172 wrote:
The US government even allows certain tribes to step around anti-drug laws for their ritualized use of peyote, for example.
And right they should. I had plenty of wine as a child and teenager as part of our Jewish holidays and Shabbat celebrations -- no concern about giving alcohol to minors.
Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 07:34 pm
@Aedes,
I was raised an Anglican - I had wine at holidays, and was allowed sips from my grandfather's glass of scotch a few times before I was put to bed. Of course, I turned fifteen and suddenly me being in possession of a six pack meant a grounding. Then we'd have Thanksgiving dinner, or something, and I would be poured a glass or three of wine throughout the course of the evening and granted generous tastes of present company's mixed drinks.

I'm just wondering when the government will recognize that marijuana is also part of culture and community for millions of Americans. And I don't mean college undergrads, though they are certainly part of the mix.
0 Replies
 
 

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