Exceptions to the rule.

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I was thinking about Bill Gates today. Him, and his wife. My daughter was sharing with me about all the charitable works he and his wife are involved in. I thought, ya know, I'm kind of guilty of generalizing too much on things. Especially about rich people. Always thinking, no one needs that much money. Paul Newman also came to mind.

I'm thinking, the ones who they are helping are probably glad that they have that much money. I think I should be too.

I think there are exceptions to most every rule. Its all how you look at things. We philosophize and analyze this, that and the other, and we make sweeping statements that come back and slap us in the face.

First impressions are misleading sometimes. Its so easy to pass judgement on people and things, and we all do it. Maybe that is our nature. I don't know.

In the case of Bill and his wife, my overall generalizations of the rich really does not apply. They are an exception to a flawed rule.

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@Elmud,

Elmud wrote:

I was thinking about Bill Gates today. Him, and his wife. My daughter was sharing with me about all the charitable works he and his wife are involved in. I thought, ya know, I'm kind of guilty of generalizing too much on things. Especially about rich people...

Yea, guilty as charged... and good example too; just the other day I was listening to an NPR show that was "brought to you by" the Gates Foundation.

For me, I've become so tired of material-based gluttony, avarice, personal value judgments based on economic factors and such, that I fear it's blurred my vision that these are still real people. I've gone so far in this direction, that I gave up a 6-figure CIO job and purposely moved to a simple home in the country - completely with poverty-level accommodations - just to cleanse myself of all that "crap". I feel SO much better now, but still...

... in so doing, I've allowed myself to make just such broad-judgments as you mention. People are to be judged - if ever we should be doing such a thing in the first place - on the merits of their individuality, not on some attribute on which we're fixated.

Good caution - thanks

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@Elmud,

Bill Gates and Warren Buffett come to mind as exceptions to the "all rich people are selfish, greedy ---insert choice swear word here----." Bill Gates has been a rather good philanthropist giving much money to education and health research, and Warren Buffett has been calling to have more of his income taxed, because it isn't fair that he has less tax burden than poor and middle class people--not to mention a great philanthropist as well. If all rich people used their money like Gates and Buffett, there would be a sound argument for allowing rich people to keep more of their money. The problem is that these two are exceptions rather than the rule.

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@Theaetetus,

Come the revolution brothers we can be philanthropic also.

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@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus wrote:

Bill Gates and Warren Buffett come to mind as exceptions to the "all rich people are selfish, greedy ---insert choice swear word here----." Bill Gates has been a rather good philanthropist giving much money to education and health research, and Warren Buffett has been calling to have more of his income taxed, because it isn't fair that he has less tax burden than poor and middle class people--not to mention a great philanthropist as well. If all rich people used their money like Gates and Buffett, there would be a sound argument for allowing rich people to keep more of their money. The problem is that these two are exceptions rather than the rule.

I can't help but wonder how much Bill Gates wife has influenced him relative to this. Don't know much about Warren Buffett. Of course, my mind always leans in that direction.

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@Elmud,

Elmud;50796 wrote:

I'm thinking, the ones who they are helping are probably glad that they have that much money. I think I should be too.

It is because one has too much that others have too little!
They have you believing their hype; it's gooood that the rich are rich, that the government keeps pouring money into those black holes of resources.
Bailing out the resource pigs....
All they 'give' to those whom they have kept poor and subservient, are tax writeoffs!! There is no excuse for such piggery! The rich are, by nature, uncharitable. 'Charity' is not taking more than your share of resources!

[CENTER][SIZE="3"]**************

End Hunger and Poverty;
Eat the Rich
!!!

*************[/COLOR]"[/SIZE][/CENTER]

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@nameless,

nameless wrote:

It is because one has too much that others have too little!
They have you believing their hype; it's gooood that the rich are rich, that the government keeps pouring money into those black holes of resources.
Bailing out the resource pigs....
All they 'give' to those whom they have kept poor and subservient, are tax writeoffs!! There is no excuse for such piggery! The rich are, by nature, uncharitable. 'Charity' is not taking more than your share of resources!

[CENTER]**************

End Hunger and Poverty;
Eat the Rich
!!!

*************"[/CENTER]

Elmud hands nameless a sammich and a slug of booze as we stand by the fifty gallon drum filled with burning wood so we can stay warm.

1 Reply

@Elmud,

Nameless, thank you.

I think it's great that Bill, et al are such philanthropists: they are working to help correct their condition of having too much wealth.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

Nameless, thank you.

I think it's great that Bill, et al are such philanthropists: they are working to help correct their condition of having too much wealth.

From my reading of Nameless's post, I think he is stating that all rich people are greedy a$$holes, which I disagree with. Bill Gates quit his job as the CEO of Microsoft to put full-time work into his charity (which unfortunately invests in companies that suppress others, but still better than 99.9% of all the other rich individuals by nature of not blowing his riches on extravagent parties and other benefits for other ridiculously rich people), and Warren Buffett repeatedly asks the government to make him pay more taxes. To begin with, Buffett never writes off any of his income, and pays his fair share according to government standards. When he found out he was paying 15% of his income to taxes, and his secretary was paying 30% of hers, he threw a fit asking why he was not paying a larger percentage. The government is not bailing out Gates and Buffett, instead they are bailing out rich douche bags that will blow anyone's money regardless of how they receive it. There are proper ways to use wealth to benefit others, and from what I have seen, Gates and Buffett serve as fine examples (maybe not perfect, but better than nearly all other rich people, or even the government).

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@Theaetetus,

I think it's a bit more nuanced. It's that, by virtue of having so much in the first place, these people are greedy. That doesn't mean that they are evil-spirited people, only that they are imperfect: and who isn't?

Maybe nameless thinks they are evil-spirited, and that's fine I guess. A bit of emotional reaction should be expected against these people, especially at a time when so many of us are struggling, myself included. But he does have some important insight into the matter: accepting that much wealth is greedy.

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@Elmud,

If you think about it though (especially in Buffett's case) many rich people are struggling. Warren Buffett is an interesting case because his wealth is self-made, and when he dies, his children receive very little of his wealth. He has spoken out repeatedly about inherited wealth, low taxes for the rich, and most of what has caused the current economic crisis. Buffett should be the current treasury secretary, but instead Obama chose blunderkind Timothy Geithner.

If you look at weath in general, the government spends weath just as poorly as rich people do. In fact, I would rather trust giving my wealth to certain rich people than let the government give it to Israel, tanking banks and auto companies, or the World Bank. Sure too much wealth is greed, but how to give out excess wealth has suffered from serious blunders by both the government and individuals.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

I think it's a bit more nuanced. It's that, by virtue of having so much in the first place, these people are greedy. That doesn't mean that they are evil-spirited people, only that they are imperfect: and who isn't?

Maybe nameless thinks they are evil-spirited, and that's fine I guess. A bit of emotional reaction should be expected against these people, especially at a time when so many of us are struggling, myself included. But he does have some important insight into the matter: accepting that much wealth is greedy.

Some people stumble over a diamond.some people step in ****. quite a bit of peoples fortunes are a result of just plain dumb luck. I have a friend who is wealthy. He falls for every hard luck story that comes around, and quite often, it comes back to bite him in the ***. Regardless, his disposition does not change. He likes to help others. At this point in my life, I like to think of the glass as half full. Makes me feel better.

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@Elmud,

Theaetetus wrote:

If you think about it though (especially in Buffett's case) many rich people are struggling. Warren Buffett is an interesting case because his wealth is self-made, and when he dies, his children receive very little of his wealth. He has spoken out repeatedly about inherited wealth, low taxes for the rich, and most of what has caused the current economic crisis. Buffett should be the current treasury secretary, but instead Obama chose blunderkind Timothy Geithner.

I am a huge Warren Buffet fan: and I agree, that's the guy who should run our economy. But as much as I like a respect the man, that doesn't change the fact that the accumulation of wealth he possesses is the result of greed, and greed on his part.

Elmud wrote:

Some people stumble over a diamond.some people step in ****. quite a bit of peoples fortunes are a result of just plain dumb luck. I have a friend who is wealthy. He falls for every hard luck story that comes around, and quite often, it comes back to bite him in the ***. Regardless, his disposition does not change. He likes to help others. At this point in my life, I like to think of the glass as half full. Makes me feel better.

And I think it's great of your friend to help people, even when the people he helps are less than scrupulous. The wealthy people I have known over the years have tended to be kind and generous as well. But that doesn't change the fact that to have so much is greed; I do not say this in a mean spirited way, I have too much material possession as well. I'm also guilty.

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@Elmud,

I think it is easy to label someone as being greedy ex post facto, but doesn't this say something about our culture rather than the individuals involved? When there are no, few, or ineffective mechanisms to limit how much wealth an individual can hold, is the individual guilty of being greedy, or is a society guilty of allowing an individual to accumulate too much capital.

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@Theaetetus,

Both.

Primarily, I agree that it is more about the culture, but we cannot let the individual off that easily. Individuals have the ability to reject cultural norms.

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@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus;51693 wrote:

From my reading of Nameless's post, he is stating that all rich people are greedy a$$holes, which I disagree with.

If you wish to be disagreeable, disagree with actual statements. You have to put words in my mouth to find something to disagree with?
Feel free to disagree with the statement that "all rich people are greedy a$$holes". I probably would also. But it is not mine. You must think along those lines, bye the way, to have come up with those judgemental and harsh words/notions. Sour-grapes or self-loathing?
Sorry, I don't wanna play.

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas;51705 wrote:

Maybe nameless thinks they are evil-spirited, and that's fine I guess. A bit of emotional reaction should be expected against these people, especially at a time when so many of us are struggling, myself included.

It seems to me that if anyone wondered what I think about something, they'd ask me rather than imputing all sorts of 'meaning and implication' not stated. I do not use the term 'evil' because it is not a part of my reality. What is, is!
Someone who takes more than their share is uncharitable, and selfish. There is no argument. Dem's the facts!
What they do with their wealth does not recompence those who must do without because they take more than their share in the first place.
There was nothing emotional. Hyperbolic and a tad dramatic? Maybe. Spices up the place now and then, no?

Personally, it makes no difference to me what a person has or doesn't have. We are who we are (and have no choices in the matter, anyway). I'm just reporting the score.

Quote:

But he does have some important insight into the matter: accepting that much wealth is greedy.

That was the point, no? By definition! And while 'he' has it, you don't (maybe you can 'rent' it?)!

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@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus;51722 wrote:

is the individual guilty of being greedy, or is a society guilty of allowing an individual to accumulate too much capital.

Both. If you are doing 'guilt'. That ('guilty') certainly nuances the simple definition of 'greedy', though. The universe is 'guilty' for supporting such greed, also!

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@nameless,

nameless wrote:

If you wish to be disagreeable, disagree with actual statements. You have to put words in my mouth to find something to disagree with?
Feel free to disagree with the statement that "all rich people are greedy a$$holes". I probably would also. But it is not mine. You must think along those lines, bye the way, to have come up with those judgemental and harsh words/notions. Sour-grapes or self-loathing?
Sorry, I don't wanna play.

I wasn't putting words into your mouth. I was interpreting your post. Thus the line "From my reading." I did forget to add "I think" before "he is saying" so I can understand where the confusion originated. If you don't want people trying to interpret what you are saying, then write clearer.

How is my line "All rich people are greedy a$$holes" any more harsh or judgmental than your lines "There is no excuse for such piggery!" or "End poverty and hunger, eat the rich." Not to mention, I am defending certain rich people so you are just as guilty of misreading my words, as I am yours. But you have added a new dimension, judging my character based on your interpretation of my words. But this is not the only instance you have done this on this forum, as I have seen numerous posts that you berate others for their character based on what they write or believe. Nice to see you hold yourself to lower standards than you expect out of others.

1 Reply

@Elmud,

^^^You waste bandwidth while actually contributing nothing of substance.
I'm putting you on my ignore list.
Bye bye.

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