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Why is there Something and not nothing?

 
 
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 04:11 pm
@awareness,
awareness;138380 wrote:
This is the conundrum issue.

If God is perfect, why would it create. To create means you are lacking and thus are no longer perfect.

This is the ultimate circular problem.


no, it is not. God create because God wants to create.
0 Replies
 
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 04:19 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
TuringEquivalent;138361 wrote:
A lot of physicists are quite fond of saying that the operative laws are responsible for the big bang, and the origin of matter. If this is so, then the question to "why this universe" maybe be responsed by " because there is some principle, or law that made it happen".


A principle or law that accounts for the existence of something is itself something and needs accounting for. Therefore it would have to account for itself which isn't logically possible.
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 06:08 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;138402 wrote:
A principle or law that accounts for the existence of something is itself something and needs accounting for. Therefore it would have to account for itself which isn't logically possible.



How is a law, or a principle some "thing"? A principle in not a thing.


Even if a law is a "thing", a law can explain itself in the following way:

Principle P: All laws with property I is true.
By quantification theory, P has property I, thus, by P, P is true.

P is true according to P, thus P is an example of a "thing" that do not need to be explained.
0 Replies
 
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 06:09 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;138402 wrote:
A principle or law that accounts for the existence of something is itself something and needs accounting for. Therefore it would have to account for itself which isn't logically possible.


Infinite regress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

:nonooo:
Night Ripper
 
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Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 06:30 pm
@Zetherin,
TuringEquivalent;138445 wrote:
How is a law, or a principle some "thing"? A principle in not a thing.


Anything that isn't nothing is something.
A principle isn't nothing.
Therefore a principle is something.

TuringEquivalent;138445 wrote:
Even if a law is a "thing", a law can explain itself in the following way:

Principle P: All laws with property I is true.
By quantification theory, P has property I, thus, by P, P is true.

P is true according to P, thus P is an example of a "thing" that do not need to be explained.


That looks like circular reasoning.



I understand you think something I've said disagrees with something in that article. However, I don't know what it is because you haven't explained your objection enough.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 06:39 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;138322 wrote:
The question doesn't make sense. When you ask "why x", you're asking for a reason. However, a reason is something. Therefore a reason can't explain why there is something instead of nothing. If there were nothing there wouldn't even be reasons, so there could never be a reason why there is something.


True. But since there is something, why couldn't there be a reason for that? It does not follow from the premise that if there were nothing there would be no reason for that, that if there is something, that there could be no reason for that. (Bad argument!).
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 06:48 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;138461 wrote:
It does not follow from the premise that if there were nothing there would be no reason for that, that if there is something, that there could be no reason for that. (Bad argument!).


That is a bad argument but that's not what I wrote.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 06:55 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;138464 wrote:
That is a bad argument but that's not what I wrote.


If you didn't that's certainly what it looked like.
0 Replies
 
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 07:40 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;138455 wrote:
Anything that isn't nothing is something.
A principle isn't nothing.
Therefore a principle is something.

I know cats, dogs, and planets are things. where are laws? Can i see them? Obvious not, because laws are not concrete things.

It is a area of research just on what is the ontological status of laws.

Quote:

That looks like circular reasoning.



The example is just to show that a principle could explain itself. BY the way, it the example is from robert nozick ` s philosphical explanation if you are interested.
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 08:04 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
TuringEquivalent;138476 wrote:
Obvious not, because laws are not concrete things.


You were talking about the existence of "some principle, or law that made it happen". You're ascribing causal powers. That sounds concrete to me.

Quote:
Concrete objects (whether mental or physical) have causal powers; numbers and functions and the rest make nothing happen.


Abstract Objects (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 08:26 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;138481 wrote:
You were talking about the existence of "some principle, or law that made it happen". You're ascribing causal powers. That sounds concrete to me.



Abstract Objects (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)




I made the point that laws cannot be concrete objects. I main the effort to not say that laws are abstract objects. It is possible that laws are in a category different from concrete, or abstract objects.


This is why i think laws are "mysterious" woooo.......

A challenge for you maybe is to construct a story that explains the realist` s view of laws (Armstrong` s view) that supporting counterfactuals in a world made up of only concrete objects. Are you game enough?
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 08:42 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
TuringEquivalent;138490 wrote:
A challenge for you maybe is to construct a story that explains the realist` s view of laws (Armstrong` s view) that supporting counterfactuals in a world made up of only concrete objects. Are you game enough?


I don't know about that but this is the view I hold:Laws of Nature [Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy]
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 09:21 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;138496 wrote:
I don't know about that but this is the view I hold:Laws of Nature [Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy]


I always think the philosophers that go for that view are conventional types. They like the minimum number of ontological commitment.

There are two problems with that view. They are:

1. cannot support subjective conditionals.

2. If the growing block universe view of time is true, then the regularities view is very unlikely (Growing block universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


Could you fill in the details for why 1 and 2 is a problem for the regularities view of laws?
0 Replies
 
 

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