Could you design a better universe than this one?

Yet all the unimaginable vastness of the universe proves is that we are small and our imagination is finite.

Yet all the unimaginable vastness of the universe proves is that we are small and our imagination is finite.

Alan,

This is hardly a challenge to Atheists and I get the feeling this thread, based on the title is an attempt to justify Theism which simply wouldn't provide a good argument.

As always, we're at stand still on the God thing because everyone has a different idea of what god is. What God is to one isn't what God is to all. Religions are religions and their idea of God is different from other religions. So God by definition cannot possibly be explained because we'd have to know which God is being talked about before we can start.

There would be many ways we could improve the universe and I think the first would be to discover the divine within it and within each other. To improve the universe we must first improve our perception of it and quit seeking an all-powerful deity in books and religions and become enlightened enough to know that omnipresence is omnipresent in all things. Seriously, we have to start at the beginning because to start now with the plethora of religions, gods, deities, dogmas and all that other stuff, is part of the reason we're killing the universe.

So, IMHO improvement has to start from the very beginning. If all of us are seeking God in things, in books, in money, in others, how is it any of us will be able to improve a universe we cannot comprehend?

Sure there are a lot of ways one could fantasize about how to change it, but this isn't a fantasy. I think we need to start by discovering heaven and god within ourselves before we can begin to comprehend and change this universe. And if we're all fighting about who's god is the right god and who's god we have to worship and give our lives to, that in-and-of-itself will not lead to improvement of our universe... as we've been so privy to observe during our stay here in the now.

The title of this thread is misleading if in fact it is a challenge to atheists... thus an attempt to debunk it if they cannot create a more improved universe than your god.

These are my thoughts on it. Peace!

Come on guys lets try and improve on this universe!

I will start,

1) cut out evolution go right to the higher evolved at once

The bacteria in our crap is more highly evolved than any of us. Why? Because it's had far more generation times. It has a new generation every 20 minutes -- we need to wait ~15 years, but routinely wait 30. Unless you want a universe with static conditions and never any biological stressors, the bacteria is actually better equipped to survive.

If survival is our measure of success, then bacteria are "better".

If the ability to do thought experiments is our measure of success, then humans are "better".

FIRST
If we are going to "start" a 'bioverse', then we need to start with the simplest genetic common denominator. That is the cell. A large organism needs cells in part because cells (being very small) have an enormous surface area to volume ratio in comparison. The surface area of our alveoli alone could cover a parking lot. Being composed of cells allows us to have much more complicated interactions with the outside world. It also allows us more complicated functions (including cognitive functions) by having cells that are 1) differentiated from one another but 2) follow the same genetic program.

There can be no multicellular organism unless you've first had unicellular organisms. And bacteria were the first unicellular organisms.


SECOND
If all the bacteria disappeared from the earth, all humans would quite promptly follow. We have symbiotic relationships with the other organisms in our environment, including our microbiota. You can't will away symbiosis and still have an organism.

You're kind of advocating some solar-powered robot that is made of no parts.

It's a matter of resolution. Forest or trees?

But composite though we are, we develop from a single cell, we have central organization and regulation of most physiologic processes, and we have a central consciousness.

There is a difference between Notre Dame de Paris and a pile of rocks. Notre Dame didn't start with a rock. It started with a blueprint.

This thread could make a nice attempt at collaborative fiction in the creative writing section...but it's got nothing to do with philosophy.

I've never heard of anyone, atheist or theist, who thinks that they could design a 'better' universe than what we have. And most atheists probably believe that no one is capable of performing such a feat, which could be reason that they became atheists in the first place. The burden of proof in this type of debate certainly lies with the theist who makes claims of a hidden, supreme architect living behind the impersonal laws of physics that cause this universe to behave as it does.

Voltaire certainly did think he could (had he been God) designed a better universe than we have. From your name, I know you must have read Candide, and you seem to be echoing the character who is your namesake. Do you think this is really the best of all possible worlds? Voltaire clearly did not. And Candide certainly has a lot to to with philosophy.

We've got to do what we can with what we have...why speculate about some world that could be, when we have so far to go before we reach the potential of this world? El Dorado cannot be reached by some act of God or divine intervention, but by people.

I'm sorry for interrupting, but what is "El Dorado"? Upon googling, I came upon the Spanish legend (which I was already aware of), but I can't imagine that's what you were referring to. I'm going to assume it has something to do with the work kennethamy was speaking about?

What blueprint did evolution/universe start with?

So you are saying we cannot improve biologically on the evolutionary process of the universe!!

Surly the universe/evolution could do a better job in less time and allow its creatures to live for millions of years instead of a brief seventy or so?