Could you design a better universe than this one?

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Can you design a better universe??

Design a universe that is better than the one we live in. Many people claim that the poor design of our universe and/or God's involvement or lack thereof, results in a universe that is unacceptable. Do you agree??

If you agree change it

In order to present a thorough model, please address all the following issues:

Will the beings you create be equal to you or less powerful?
What degree of free will will you allow to those beings?
How will you prevent those beings from hurting offending you, each other and your creation?
What will you do with those beings who break your rules?
What laws of physics will you use?

." The universe you design does not have to be similar to our universe".The task is to improve on our universe?

Change the laws of physics/improve on them?.

Think about

Gravity,?
Thermodynamics?
Matter?
Energy?
Dark matter?
Antimatter?
Quarks?
Superstrings?
Your big bang or creation event?
Eternal Infinite Universe?
Finite Universe?.

Think about the beings who you will create. How will they interact with you and each other (you don't have to use the five senses that we have)?

The goal is to get you to think deeply about the issues of free will and love/hate etc, and how those issues are affected by the new fundamental constants

Alter at will any of the below:

Strong nuclear force (keeps protons within atomic nuclei from flying away)

Weak nuclear force (responsible for phenomena within the atomic nucleus, such as radioactive decay)
Gravity (attraction between masses)
Electromagnetic force (which governs interactions of charged particles)
Etc etc

What does the forum think??
:
I would try to eliminate death, but how is another story!!

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@Alan McDougall,

Being an atheist I do not believe I could create a universe :bigsmile:

To those who are not content with the state of the universe, change your attitude towards the universe, it is easier than changing the universe.

1 Reply

@validity,

validity;102731 wrote:

Being an atheist I do not believe I could create a universe :bigsmile:

To those who are not content with the state of the universe, change your attitude towards the universe, it is easier than changing the universe.

Then by proxy your universe is your God :bigsmile:

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall;102736 wrote:

Then by proxy your universe is your God :bigsmile:

I do not understand how is this so.

1 Reply

@validity,

validity;102738 wrote:

I do not understand how is this so.

Maybe not your God but more like your mother, you are made out of the stuff of a supernova, thus you are very special, it took an explosion as colossal as that to allow for the correct elements to be created to form your absolute unique body Smile

Remember the Desiderata?

"You are a child of the universe"

http://www.fightpink.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/desiderata_for_print.gif

[SIZE=+3]Desiderata [/SIZE]
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.

Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, "whatever you conceive Him to be". And whatever your labors and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams; it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.

--- Max Ehrmann, 1927

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall;102740 wrote:

Maybe not your God but more like your mother, you are made out of the stuff of a supernova, thus you are very special, it took an explosion as colossal as that to allow for the correct elements to be created to form your absolute unique body

Then by proxy your universe is more like your mother... Oh I get it now.

What I am made out of is no more special than everything else around me, as it too is made out of the stuff of a supernova. A plastic bottle is also a child of the universe. Not very poetic, I am afraid.

Alan McDougall;102740 wrote:

Remember the Desiderata?

"You are a child of the universe"

I do, beautiful

YouTube - National Lampoon-"Deteriorata" from the LP "Greatest Hits of the National Lampoon" WITH LYRICS!

1 Reply

@validity,

validity;102742 wrote:

Then by proxy your universe is more like your mother... Oh I get it now.

I prefer the desiderata, but it just might be closer to the truth. Honestly I did not like it, but maybe that is just showing my lack of a sense of humor

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

Grant me omniscience and omnipotence and I think I'll have a pretty good shot at it.

To start, I'm assuming you're using 'better' to mean 'better for humans in general', as trying to measure or prove inherent 'goodness' in the universe seems to me to be an impossible task.

You're going into quite some detail about which factors might be changed to improve the universe as compared to our own, but this level of contemplation isn't really needed to answer your question. If your request were to create a 'perfect' universe, you'd have quite a bit of work on your hands. As it stands, to make simply a 'better' universe than our current one, all you'd have to do is remove a bit of suffering (e.g. in the form of a disease) and leave the rest the same.

So to answer the question directly, I'd create the same universe in which we're currently living, but I'd leave out... oh, let's say pancreatic cancer. There, done. Better universe.

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@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall;102743 wrote:

I prefer the desiderata, but it just might be closer to the truth. Honestly I did not like it, but maybe that is just showing my lack of a sense of humor

I am not claiming either one is closer to any truth. Both are just different ways of looking at the same thing. It was demonstrating the point of a different attitude towards the same subject. Attitude can change the universe, psychologically speaking..

1 Reply

@validity,

validity;102746 wrote:

I am not claiming either one is closer to any truth. Both are just different ways of looking at the same thing. It was demonstrating the point of a different attitude towards the same subject. Attitude can change the universe, psychologically speaking..

The Deteriorata starts with the quote "you are a fluke" Well lets us consider that, of the almost infinite worlds in this unimaginably vast universe your were lucky enough to be born on planet earth possibly the only world that can harbour life.

Of the six .five billion people you are the offspring of only two, namely your mom and dad. Of your mom's some twenty thousand eggs you arose from just one of them. Out of your dads half billion or so sperm cells, only one reached that specific egg to create the absolutely unique being that you are. No one else has or will ever have your exact DNA code

There has never been someone exactly like you in all creation going back fifteen or so billion years namely; the estimated age of the universe. In all eternities going into the infinite future there will never be another exactly like you.

Lastly you were lucky enough to come into existence in a universe beautifully balanced to harbour human and other life.

So the question begs, are you a fluke? or the work of a mind of unimaginable omniscience??

Then before the universe existed before time itself God created a mind similar to him, that mind is your consciousness, self-awareness, eternal soul or spirit call it what you like. You are indeed a god in your own right

No sparrow falls that god does not see!!

Are you a child of the universe or are you a child of God??

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

The problem is in the detail Alan, not seeing the complete picture puts us at a disadvantage. I would not make great changes, just a bit of clarity.

0 Replies

@Alan McDougall,

This thread could make a nice attempt at collaborative fiction in the creative writing section...but it's got nothing to do with philosophy.

I've never heard of anyone, atheist or theist, who thinks that they could design a 'better' universe than what we have. And most atheists probably believe that no one is capable of performing such a feat, which could be reason that they became atheists in the first place. The burden of proof in this type of debate certainly lies with the theist who makes claims of a hidden, supreme architect living behind the impersonal laws of physics that cause this universe to behave as it does.

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

I don't see what asking an atheist to design a better universe, proves. So because a single human cannot design a universe, it follows that God exists? :eek:

Hell, this whole create a universe thing seems like quite a challenge to atheists and theists alike! Or are theists more capable of designing universes?

1 Reply

@Zetherin,

Alan McDougall;102755 wrote:

So the question begs, are you a fluke? or the work of a mind of unimaginable omniscience?
Are you a child of the universe or are you a child of God?

You are excluding the middle. Where does it say I have to be either?
Personally, I prefer being a fluke. It removes a lot of the pressure
to live up to some vague cosmic standard of behavior.

Zetherin;102828 wrote:

I don't see what asking an atheist to design a better universe, proves.

Perhaps that's because it doesn't prove anything . . .
Except that maybe an atheist would immediately recognize the utter
absurdity of such a request, and maybe think, "Hey, here's another theist
trying to be clever and trick me into agreeing to the premise that some sort
of 'creator' is inherent in the universe."

Zetherin;102828 wrote:

So because a single human cannot design a universe, it follows that God exists? :eek:

Some people seem more comfortable in their own skin believing this.

It's a trick question anyway. A single human can't do anything . . . there'd have
to be a committee.

0 Replies

@Alan McDougall,

How is this an atheism challenge?

Since when is it a contention of atheism that humans can design a universe?

1 Reply

@Aedes,

Aedes;102838 wrote:

How is this an atheism challenge?

Since when is it a contention of atheism that humans can design a universe?

I think it's just an attempt to show that the universe is so unimaginably vast,
all-encompassing, complex, and so seemingly well-suited for human
habitation that in the mind of a theist that it is proof that it had to be designed
by a being just as unimaginably vast, all-encompassing, complex, and so seemingly
positively-inclined for human habitation, as opposed to how some of us might actually
interpret the same argument as one for the unimaginable and all-encompassing
improbability of such a being.

2 Replies

@TickTockMan,

I think maybe gravity and the classic elements earth, wind, fire, and water should be good enough for me. Yep, I cant' think of anything else I'd need.

2 Replies

@chad3006,

I think Alan was trying to suggest that those who see faults in the scheme of things, should consider the alternatives. If you are dissatisfied with what you see ,would you , could you suggest how you would improve the observed.

Two dogmatic approaches, we observe here, one that we have a visible creator and the other, there could not possible be any such thing as a creator. Am i acting in superior manner by stating your dogmatic positions are counter to developing a dialogue, that might find common ground? This certainty is really quite annoying at times.

0 Replies

@TickTockMan,

TickTockMan;102843 wrote:

I think it's just an attempt to show that the universe is so unimaginably vast,
all-encompassing, complex, and so seemingly well-suited for human
habitation that in the mind of a theist that it is proof that it had to be designed
by a being just as unimaginably vast, all-encompassing, complex, and so seemingly
positively-inclined for human habitation.

Yet all the unimaginable vastness of the universe proves is that we are small and our imagination is finite.

2 Replies

@chad3006,

chad3006;102849 wrote:

I think maybe gravity and the classic elements earth, wind, fire, and water should be good enough for me. Yep, I cant' think of anything else I'd need.

As long as those elements could be combined to form a really good beer, I'm on board.

0 Replies

Could you design a better universe than this one?

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