Is God part of existence or cause of existence

I know there are things that are hard for us to comprehend, such as higher mathematical dimensions (although I'm starting to think that the human mind could indeed comprehend them if we knew what it was we were trying to comprehend). I don't really think so many people should use that fact (as they do) to just get away from certain questions they don't like.

1- certain things are logically impossible. There are some things attributed to God that turn out to be logically impossible, and theists in their defense argue "but our silly little human minds can't understand it". This is silly; human minds can understand logic. The only way we can say things are beyond human capacity to understand is if we assume that the logically impossible is in fact possible, that logical impossibility is our inability to comprehend. However once logical impossibility is assumed to be possible, there's no point at all to any form of philosophy because that one fact destroys all possible chance of arguing anything.

2- of course our mind's can grasp infinity. We think it can't because we just try to think of something really big, but still finite. To be honest I find it personally reasonable and easy to suppose the Universe may have no beginning to its existence.

When we assume that the logically impossible is in fact possible we are not assuming it is possible within our laws or views of the world. That as you say is just stupid then it isn't logically impossible since it is possible. We assume that it is only possible outside of our logic hence it being impossible to comprehend with out finite minds. Sometimes we as humans become haughty and assume that we can or do know everything or one day will. We can only wish that and have no proof otherwise.

If the universe has no beginning to its existence how do you explain your existence right now. If the universe has no beginning you can never get to a specific point on the line of time. It is easy to say that you will one day be 100 years down the road because we are starting at a specific date and will end at a specific date.

If the universe has no beginning then you can't get to present time. It is logically impossible.

A philosopher once gave the example that you are looking to borrow a book from someone though someone who you think has it says "no it is as Joe's". So you go to Joe's and he says "no, it is at Susies". If no one actually owns the book you will never get it.

You can never get to a specific point of time if you do not have a starting spot. If you assume the universe has no beginning then present day is impossible yet here we are, just a small spot in time.

Logical impossibility is not the same as being impossible according to our physical laws. Logical impossibility means it MUST be impossible, for example a 3-sided square is logically impossible.

You are thinking in terms of a beginning. You are trying to find a cause for the Universe, and saying 'if there is no cause there is no Universe'. Although if the Universe had no beginning, it had no cause, this doesn't mean it can't exist. Nothing needed to bring it into existence if it was already there.

How is it logically impossible?

I don't see you're logic. If there is no beginning, the present is not impossible. In fact the present is the most important thing, because it is always right in the middle, between infinity on both sides.

Hello All,

I have long investigated and argued the point about GOD as some sort of a being sitting on a throne in the heavens.

If this is the case then He is separate from matter, energy and just like the rest of us can be found "somewhere"


Thus, this god will dwell within existence and not be the cause thereof and the theory of most scientist atheists and astrophysicists would be correct that god is a part of existence there is no creator of existence

Then if God exist he is just some mighty being or supreme being if you like

The ultimate enigma will remain, what or who is the source of all things??.

The most amazing and puzzling thing to me is "my own existence"



Alan

How could that person not be both alan

Originally Posted by click here
If the universe has no beginning then you can't get to present time. It is logically impossible.
How is it logically impossible?

Welshie: I have never found myself so agreeing with another person on these topics. What you said is exactly what I would say, but better. So thanks!

To others: why must there be a beginning of time to find out when "now" is. It seems we have a better sense of when "now" is than when the "beginning" is. To find a point on the timeline we don't need a beginning, we just need some reference point. Any will do. As Welshie suggested, perhaps it's 0AD. Or maybe it's the everchanging "now". If we pick 0AD then we can know that we exist in 2009 because it is 2009 years after 0AD, not because it is x years after the beginning. If there is no beginning, that doesn't matter. Events could happen y years before 0AD as well.

click here: I'm tempted to agree with you about the three sided square thing: we've created the notion of the square. However, how do you explaining a three-sided object that has four sides? You can't, it's logically impossible (different from physically impossible).

I have long investigated and argued the point about GOD as some sort of a being sitting on a throne in the heavens.

If this is the case then He is separate from matter, energy and just like the rest of us can be found "somewhere"

Thus, this god will dwell within existence and not be the cause thereof and the theory of most scientist atheists and astrophysicists would be correct that god is a part of existence there is no creator of existence

Sometimes we as humans become haughty and assume that we can or do know everything or one day will. We can only wish that and have no proof otherwise.

If the universe has no beginning to its existence how do you explain your existence right now. If the universe has no beginning you can never get to a specific point on the line of time. It is easy to say that you will one day be 100 years down the road because we are starting at a specific date and will end at a specific date.

If the universe has no beginning then you can't get to present time. It is logically impossible. A philosopher once gave the example that you are looking to borrow a book from someone though someone who you think has it says "no it is as Joe's". So you go to Joe's and he says "no, it is at Susies". If no one actually owns the book you will never get it.

You can never get to a specific point of time if you do not have a starting spot. If you assume the universe has no beginning then present day is impossible yet here we are, just a small spot in time.

I don't see how you can understand that as that is outside of our system of logic unless you assume that the universe had a beginning.

And why is a 3 sided square impossible? Because we have defined what a sqaure is. So it is only impossible under the laws by which we define a square as. So again it is only logically impossible within our laws and views of the world.

If the universe is 'allready there' and had no beginning then again I state that you can not get to a specific point in time if there is no starting poing.

Can you count to infinity? No because infinity is not a set number that you can reach. You can count to a specific point on the progression of infinity if and only if I set a specific number to count to. For this example I will say 1 billion. But how do you do that? Well you start at 1 and start counting till you get to that number. How what if I told you that you had to get to 1 billion but you had to start at negative infinity. There would be no starting place for you to begin counting as you would infinitly regress. Any time that you would start to count you could always add another zero to what ever number you start from. If there is no starting point from which you can begin from then it is impossible for you to count to 1 billion.

Now do you understand? For the example, to keep things simple, '1 billion' is present day. Present day can not be attained if the universe regresses infinitely.

Hello All,

I have long investigated and argued the point about GOD as some sort of a being sitting on a throne in the heavens.

If this is the case then He is separate from matter, energy and just like the rest of us can be found "somewhere"


Thus, this god will dwell within existence and not be the cause thereof and the theory of most scientist atheists and astrophysicists would be correct that god is a part of existence there is no creator of existence

Then if God exist he is just some mighty being or supreme being if you like

The ultimate enigma will remain, what or who is the source of all things??.

The most amazing and puzzling thing to me is "my own existence"



Alan

The above is your perception based on traditional beliefs that God is separate from mankind. This is embracing the belief system that has been passed down for generations and generations by other men. Men, who at the time thought the world was flat. This, to me, does not make any sense at all. Basically it's saying that you are separate from God or creation and that we can only wish. We do have proof and it's all over but the ego of man is blind to see the proof standing before him.

Shall we continue to indoctrinate humankind with the logic of a cave man? Have we not evolved to the point of going past that of the cave man?

Right on. This makes sense. So how can God be a god within creation if we have defined god separate from creation? How is it logically possible? The ceiling is the ceiling we create.... with god.

This is only your own perception of it and it's obviously not in line with my perception of it. Where are you trying to get to or go? What specific point in time are we trying to get to? There is no beginning and there will be no end, all there is, is here and now. The more we are blinded by our ego the more we tend to think our time here is limited and we are living for something else. Not realizing that the something else we live for stands before us, is us.


No I don't understand. Cavemen counted. You are using caveman logic. Again, fundamental idea that God is, 'somewhere out there'. This may have worked when people thought the earth to be flat but it doesn't apply today unless you are willing to carry that idea and those ancient traditions into the here and now.

Like the numbers, there is no end. Just add a zero. There's also no beginning, just progression and evolution and rebirth. Let's start an infinity and count to infinity.