The Value of Freedom

When I went to church we had preacher just like you he bellowed out his perverted views of christianity week after week . In the end he preached to just a like minded few , the rest of us just laughed and stayed at home. You are becoming a cartoon figure oblivious to the real meaning of socialism , your sermon has been written and you refuse to even consider any alternative..

Im still waiting for your reply by the way.

What did I say that is factually incorrect? A collectivist ideology must be anti individual freedom, you can't deny that.



On that human nature thing in the other thread? I'm still thinking about it. :flowers:
You can say something if you want. What is your view of human nature in the light that we discussed.

If a group of people wish to form a collective community, by choice, thats fine but modern democratic socialism does not include forcing that on anyone, do you understand?

But that's factually incorrect. Modern socialism does include forcing it on everyone. Or can people choose not to pay taxes? They can choose not to receive the services they are forced to pay for, that's your point?

You are even forced to participate in some of the social programs, in Europe you are forced to send your children to state run education, where your children are being instilled with the ideology which the collective chooses.
The collective can take away your children if it thinks you don't raise them right. The collective taxes fast food if it thinks you are too fat, and it taxes gas if it thinks you should drive less. All this is anti-individualist and therefore anti-humanist, like the communist state, or the medieval church. Therefore the ideology, though less strong, is the same.

But that's factually incorrect. Modern socialism does include forcing it on everyone. Or can people choose to not pay taxes? They can choose not to receive the services they are forced to pay for, that's your point?

[CENTER]:bigsmile:

That's How it works. You pay the taxes and have a choice to use the facilities the government offers. Once a Year the Parliamnet check's with the Queen. The Queen and Her Ministers form The Government here. I don't now if it's perfectly democratic, but it works well enough.[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Pepijn Sweep
[/CENTER]

We are not forced to send our children to state schools...So give me an example of the state removing a child for not being raised correctly? just the one mind..So answer my question in your opinion the whole world is a communist state, come on now Nero, a yes or no.

You damned communists are every where...

Let me ask you something. You know what humanism is. It means putting individual dignity before other concerns. Therefore, putting the needs of the collective before the needs of individuals (socialism) is anti-humanist. Per definition.
Why is that evil when dictators with wacky uniforms do it, but it's good when modern socialists with noble intentions do it?

Let me ask you something. You know what humanism is. It means putting individual dignity before other concerns. Therefore, putting the needs of the collective before the needs of individuals (socialism) is anti-humanist. Per definition.
Why is that evil when dictators with wacky uniforms do it, but it's good when modern socialists with noble intentions do it?

Come on Nero answer the question .....stop the silly rhetoric ,answer the darned question..

Come on Nero answer the question .....stop the silly rhetoric ,answer the darned question..

Yes, to a degree all nations are communist.

Yes, to a degree all nations are communist.

In his defense, from your quoted source, he asserted only to a "degree." To a degree, in "all nations" there is common ownership. I think i can agree with that, acknowledging the shortcomings of my political knowledge. What do you think?

Let me ask you something. You know what humanism is. It means putting individual dignity before other concerns. Therefore, putting the needs of the collective before the needs of individuals (socialism) is anti-humanist. Per definition.
Why is that evil when dictators with wacky uniforms do it, but it's good when modern socialists with noble intentions do it?