Is Capitalism Moral?

When did I ever say that some resources will never be scarce?

I don't. Would you care to explain.

You throw this word utopia around without actually stating its definition, and I never said that I believed that my idea was utopian. A utopia is a perfect society with no problems whatsoever, and everyone is happy and gets along all of the time. I don't believe that that's possible. My idea is for a better, more just society, not a perfect society.

A post-scarcity society is a society without economic problems as all economic problems derive from the inability to meet scarce resources with wants that are not bound by scarcity.

Post-scarcity is an economic utopia.

An economic utopia; I'm not sure that there wouldn't be anymore economic problems, like over-population or depleted resources. Is it possible that future technology could lead us to a society without economic problems; I'd like to think so, but who knows? Post-scarcity is somewhat of a misleading term because it implies that resources will never be scarce. Post-scarcity economics deals more with the effective management and distribution of resources.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the idea that without a distribution system that can manage scarcity, your proposal is dependent on the non existence of scarcity to function. If there is scarcity, how will you manage that in your idea?

I'm proposing a manufacturing system and a distribution system that can manage resources with the use of technology that will make resources less scarce.

Everyone is trying to do that (with the exception of your random luddite or religious group). The only way you are likely to be different is in trying to manage peoples wants.

Everyone is trying to do that (with the exception of your random luddite or religious group). The only way you are likely to be different is in trying to manage peoples wants.

The only difference is the absence of the monetary system, which I believe would make resource management more of a central priority.

The only difference is the absence of the monetary system, which I believe would make resource management more of a central priority.

People don't want. That is a programmed illusion. We have been "programmed" to want. That is precisely what feeds capitalism. Freedom is about accessing unalienable human needs to live. And IMO you will be amazed at how very little that entails that will enable all to have an enjoyable life. Yes, there needs to be a reward system, but not one that is based on the value we place on that which is rare. That creates inequity that creates iniquity. If we put our minds together we can arrive at what that rewards system is that will be compatible with all that live on this planet. A rewards system free of animosity, envy and greed. People don't have to be controlled as to what they "want". That is the wildfire that is out of control as we assume all man is greedy and effort to satisfy that greed because of the profits is afford's. This system has little regard to resources and the needs of all people. We must strive to balance those resources the Earth offers and the needs of those people who live here. We have all we need to do that if we work and communicate together as a family. After all we are a family and the Earth is our home. We must have respect for that home and those people. The number one truth is this Earth is NOT FOR SALE. It is to be own by none and shared by all.:detective:

William

I want, you want, people want. You are simply wrong. We do not covet things only because they are rare. For example, I love feta cheese...not very rare. Just because you institute a regime that announces the end of desire, and then procedes to decide what everyone 'needs,' does not mean that there won't be many people who want things they don't 'need.'

Right, BrightNoon. Desire cannot be ended by decree. Controlling desire takes practice.

However, it is also true that people do want, people do have desires. Cultural forces may exacerbate desires and create new desires among people, but it does not follow that desires are nothing more than "programmed illusion".

In all due respect, what you deem "simply wrong" is based on your opinion of what is right and wrong. Wrong is wrong, period, and it should not be relative issue. That's our problem. You are speaking in absolutes and there aren't any. Unbridled desire is very much a problem. We are daily inundated with artificially induced stimuli through the miracle of the multi media and the advertising that supports it to, to "want" entirely more than we need. Your attempt to trivialize the seriousness of my post with the "feta cheese" analogy, IMO, is an attempt to discredit it based on your opinion. I appreciate that, but please if you going to truly challenge the logic of my post, you are going to have to do better than that.

William

People don't want. That is a programmed illusion. We have been "programmed" to want. That is precisely what feeds capitalism. Freedom is about accessing unalienable human needs to live. And IMO you will be amazed at how very little that entails that will enable all to have an enjoyable life. Yes, there needs to be a reward system, but not one that is based on the value we place on that which is rare. That creates inequity that creates iniquity. If we put our minds together we can arrive at what that rewards system is that will be compatible with all that live on this planet. A rewards system free of animosity, envy and greed. People don't have to be controlled as to what they "want". That is the wildfire that is out of control as we assume all man is greedy and effort to satisfy that greed because of the profits is afford's. This system has little regard to resources and the needs of all people. We must strive to balance those resources the Earth offers and the needs of those people who live here. We have all we need to do that if we work and communicate together as a family. After all we are a family and the Earth is our home. We must have respect for that home and those people. The number one truth is this Earth is NOT FOR SALE. It is to be own by none and shared by all.:detective:

William

In all due respect, what you deem "simply wrong" is based on your opinion of what is right and wrong.

I didn't mean morally wrong, I meant factually incorrect. I've never seen the brave new world you're talking about, but, if it is reasonable to use all of human history thus far as a guide, there will never be a time when homo sapiens will not want, nor will they ever agree to want only those things which they have unanimously decided they need. I too find western consumerism to be vulgar, but I find collectivist aesceticism in the name of equality or the greater good more vulgar; in either case, its an aesthetic judgement, or a question of whether one values the individual or the group. As for feta cheese, what was trivial in my example? Let's say that in your ideal society, there is no feta cheese distributed equally amoung the people, but rather gorgonzola. I still like feta. Am I not displeased, are my desires not unsatisfied? Human desires will never be uniform, and any fixed determination of 'need' will only satisfy some of them. And no, answering that my love of feta cheese is the product of pragramming and indoctrination goes nowhere. There were people millenia ago who preferred feta cheese, people who never saw a TV or went to public school. The fact that our desires are shaped by modern propoganda organs does not prove that those desires are invalid, only aestheticall displeasing to you, and me to some extent.

It's not an aesthetic issue; it's an ethical issue. The love of feta-chesse has the tendency to lead to health problems. Health problems are not good or conducive to the body or the mind. The over-prioritization of material goods (greed and superficiality) is not conducive to actual happiness or ultimate goodness, and that is a fact. Knowing and understanding human psychology helps us understand what is conducive to our overall well being, and economic materialism, superficiality, and greed are not it. Superficial (bad) values are mainly induced by the monetary system, capitalism, and advertisement.