I will prove god's existence if....

@xris,

Lightning strikes a tree which starts to burn.
Everybody asks "How did it happen ?"
Smart people: "We don't know"
Stupid people: "Goddidit! Because He's angry!"
Then electricity and meteorology explain it. The "Goddidit" people change their minds.

People get sick.
Everybody asks "How did it happen ?"
Smart people: "We don't know"
Stupid people: "Goddidit! To punish sinners!"
Then medicine and microbiology explain it. God's role is shrunk once again.

Multiple species of organisms are observed.
Everybody asks "How did it happen ?"
Smart people: "We don't know"
Stupid people: "Goddidit! Because... He wanted to!"
Then evolutionary biology, paleontology, geology, genetics, zoology, microbiology, etc thoroughly explain the phenomenon and provide massive corroborative evidence to support this explanation.

The "Goddidit" people, like a cornered animal, start feeling threatened and begin to fight back with the so called "intelligent design theory" without realizing they thus deny the validity of almost all branches of science. "No apparent, perceived, or claimed interpretation of evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record." --AnswersInGenesis.com, one of the flag bearers of the Goddidit movement.

xris wrote:

[...]the BB by consensus of cosmologists is an event without an apparent cause so could we then say the universe has been created [...]

An event without an apparent cause ? We could say that, we also could say that a fairy in a pink tutu made it happen, we could say anything, but why would we ?

No one can even speculate what happened before 10^-43 seconds.

The Big Bang scientific model is formulated.
Everybody asks "What happened from second 0 to second 10^-43 ?"
Smart people: "We don't know, we need a quantum gravitation theory first"
Stupid people "A-hah! Whatever "it" is, clearly Goddidit! Because ... umm... errr... He loves us?" Very Happy

I see a pattern here...

Bottom line, don't join the Goddidit movement, they have a lousy track record.

-

2 Replies

@ariciunervos,

Im not getting on the god gravy train im trying to give a reason why you could speculate on a creator or creative force...yes you can say what you like about the creator because we have not found one..describe as you please but he has to be logical not sarcastically designed..Speculating before the 10 to the billionth or whatever but on cosmological terms there is nothing before this event..

1 Reply

@avatar6v7,

avatar6v7 wrote:

Presenting the points of differing arguments together, without any of its logical context and done in such a way as to create an adverse impression. A wonderful way to go about an argument, far superior to the old and out moded 'logical debate.'

I'm sorry but you gave up 'logical debate' when you typed "I will prove god's existence" and then you redefined reality and the concepts of `proof` and `existence` just so god can fit in the picture. Logical debate. LOL. Give it a rest already.

2 Replies

@ariciunervos,

ariciunervos wrote:

I'm sorry but you gave up 'logical debate' when you typed "I will prove god's existence" and then you redefined reality and the concepts of `proof` and `existence` just so god can fit in the picture. Logical debate. LOL. Give it a rest already.

Sorry but when did i type "i will prove gods existance"...???:perplexed:

2 Replies

@xris,

And stop playing with that razor you might cut yourself..

0 Replies

@xris,

xris wrote:

[...] im trying to give a reason why you could speculate on a creator or creative force...

Creative force, I guess you could name it that, just as continental drift is the creative force behind earthquakes. But is it divine in nature ? Why would it be ? Because we say so ?

xris wrote:

yes you can say what you like about the creator because we have not found one ..describe as you please but he has to be logical not sarcastically designed

"The creator" ? What creator ? The one we didn't find ? Huh ? Do you realize you most probably are personifying a force much like the one causing continental drift, and then you call IT "He" ? Very Happy

xris wrote:

..Speculating before the 10 to the billionth or whatever but on cosmological terms there is nothing before this event..

What are you getting at ?

0 Replies

@xris,

xris wrote:

Sorry but when did i type "i will prove gods existance"...???:perplexed:

You didn't, avatar did, check the quote.

1 Reply

@ariciunervos,

If you could confine your answers with reasons rather than rhetoric ..i would be grateful...this is an exercise not a crusade...

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

If you could confine your answers with reasons rather than rhetoric ..i would be grateful...this is an exercise not a crusade...

When people bring to the discussion stuff like "God transcends time" I tend to give up and switch to anti-bullshit mode. Sorry.

2 Replies

@xris,

xris wrote:

The big bang has no before by the evidence..you cant just say we dont know...there is no evidence of a before so its just as logical to say it could have been created.Im not saying it was but its part of the circumstantial..Now what about the considerable amazing relationship of distance and sizes of the sun the earth and moon..How the moon came to be exactly positioned the correct weight correct size by the smallest margin...how by chance we had the correct position relative to the sun and the moon...All these are amazing coincidences or have they been magnificently engineered..circumstantial...Without this fine tuning life would be impossible..

In an infinite universe the likelihood that some planet somewhere was going to develop the capacity to sustain life is probably quite high. It's all just a matter of how you look at it.

1 Reply

@ariciunervos,

ariciunervos wrote:

When people bring to the discussion stuff like "God transcends time" I tend to give up and switch to anti-bullshit mode. Sorry.

Why are you so narrow minded? and why do keep misquoting me?

1 Reply

@Solace,

Solace wrote:

In an infinite universe the likelihood that some planet somewhere was going to develop the capacity to sustain life is probably quite high. It's all just a matter of how you look at it.

Yes i totally agree but the sequence of events is the crucial question and the chances of life as we know it are alot higher than people suppose..we can look at millions of stars and we are having great difficulty even finding something even remotely similar..find a planet then find just the right size star then the right distant from the star then a proportional sized moon...the correct make up of the planet..it goes on and on..yes it most probably is coincidence but im talking about circumstantial evidence building up to a relevant answer..

0 Replies

@avatar6v7,

I've got it!

God must exist. But at the same time, God can't exist. God is a paradox. This means that God is outside of the realm of proof. We cannot prove a paradox. That is what makes it a paradox.

0 Replies

@xris,

xris wrote:

Why are you so narrow minded? and why do keep misquoting me?

Sorry, where have I misquoted you ? "God trancends time" is avatar6v7's claim, same as "I will prove god's existence", I've never attributed these quotes to you.

Narrow minded ? :sarcastic: Not accepting the idea of imaginary beings existing and their properties make me narrow minded ? How about... sane ?

2 Replies

@ariciunervos,

Quote:

Narrow minded ? :sarcastic: Not accepting the idea of imaginary beings existing and their properties make me narrow minded ? How about... sane ?

Hey I'm quite sane. And the Tooth Fairy stole my dentures last night!:thats-enough:

1 Reply

@ariciunervos,

ariciunervos wrote:

Sorry, where have I misquoted you ? "God trancends time" is avatar6v7's claim, same as "I will prove god's existence", I've never attributed these quotes to you.

Narrow minded ? :sarcastic: Not accepting the idea of imaginary beings existing and their properties make me narrow minded ? How about... sane ?

You refuse to enter into the debate because you have predertimined views on the subject. You can say that my vies are illogical. You can say that the views are stupid. You can say that your views are a million times better. But you cannot claim that everyone who disagrees with you is mentally unbalanced. Had I come to you in the 14th century with atomic theory you would probably would have called me mad and run me through with a pitchfork.

0 Replies

@ariciunervos,

ariciunervos wrote:

I'm sorry but you gave up 'logical debate' when you typed "I will prove god's existence" and then you redefined reality and the concepts of `proof` and `existence` just so god can fit in the picture. Logical debate. LOL. Give it a rest already.

so whats this then..

0 Replies

@ariciunervos,

ariciunervos wrote:

When people bring to the discussion stuff like "God transcends time" I tend to give up and switch to anti-bullshit mode. Sorry.

infering i wrote this...god transcends time...so who said it not me..

0 Replies

@avatar6v7,

Take a breath, guys.

0 Replies

@Solace,

Solace wrote:

Hey I'm quite sane. And the Tooth Fairy stole my dentures last night!:thats-enough:

If that was slightly humorous it would be constructive as it was not...

0 Replies

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