Subjective Experience

I suppose what I'm asking is if our subjective experience is just how our body/brain is wired (aka materialism or physicalism) then can the same subjective experience be reproduced?

... I would add to the term "wired": "souped" and "chaosed" ... "souped" in the sense of chemical flows throughout the body; "chaosed" in the sense of how the electro-chemical complex may operate in the realm of chaotic attractors ... trying to reconstruct the external environment to reproduce subjective experience sounds tough enough; trying to reconstruct the internal electro-chemical state sounds even tougher; and if that electro-chemical complex is mathematically chaotic - wandering seemingly aimlessly through phase space and never repeating itself - then you never need leave the realm of materialism/physicalism to conclude that a subjective experience can never be exactly reproduced ...

yes it would be quite a daunting task and very problamatic but I am alittle optimistic about the future. IF we could, if we had some sort of machine that could take a direct copy (cell for cell, neuron for neuron) of your body/brain in action before you died then, "re-make" you... would it be as if you had just woken up or something? If not then what would be missing? The idea seems coherent...

The mind is mysterious. The brain is extraordinary. How do you create subjective experience? If you could create subjective experience would it be the same? Could it be the same? Can it be replicated? I suppose what I'm asking is if our subjective experience is just how our body/brain is wired (aka materialism or physicalism) then can the same subjective experience be reproduced?

It seems either side you choose would lead to a slippery slope of more questions after that...

(Note: I hope this doesnt insinuate that I'm a materialist. I'm just using it hypothetically.)

Thanks for any help

... to the doppelganger, yes - it would be as if he (I) had blacked out for a second and woken up physically removed from where he (I) last remembered being conscious ... would this doppelganger be "me"? ... no - there is no continuity of process (which is all that "me" is) ... to "me", dying of old age on the table, the doppelganger is a "he".

Now let's try another thought experiment ... instead of creating an exact copy, let's gradually replace every molecule in my body/brain (cell for cell, neuron for neuron) before I have the chance to die ... would this be "me"? ... of course it would! - and we are living proof that this is the case! ... over the course of a human life, every molecule of every cell in the human body ends up being replaced - what we're proposing here is merely an acceleration (and youthification?) of a natural process!

You say that replacing each cell before i die would end up being "Me" but how could that be the case if i was still alive?

If we cloned someone would the clone and the original have the same SE?

Im not doing that great of a job at trying to illustrate my point but i hope you get the picture.

... to the doppelganger, yes - it would be as if he (I) had blacked out for a second and woken up physically removed from where he (I) last remembered being conscious ... would this doppelganger be "me"? ... no - there is no continuity of process (which is all that "me" is) ... to "me", dying of old age on the table, the doppelganger is a "he".

Now let's try another thought experiment ... instead of creating an exact copy, let's gradually replace every molecule in my body/brain (cell for cell, neuron for neuron) before I have the chance to die ... would this be "me"? ... of course it would! - and we are living proof that this is the case! ... over the course of a human life, every molecule of every cell in the human body ends up being replaced - what we're proposing here is merely an acceleration (and youthification?) of a natural process!

... consider this: right now, there is no molecule in your body remaining from the day you were born - all of those molecules have been replaced over time ... does that mean that there have been two you's? ... no - there has only been one you ... "you" are but a process that flows through the world of substance and are not bound to any particular substance ...

... no - all you have to do is look at a pair of identical twins and observe that they do not share subjective experience ... they are clones of each other - but they are independent processes with independent histories and independent futures ...

yea im aware of the fact that we gain and lose cells all the time but why wouldnt we be able to re-create "you"? I mean from a materailist pov it would be possible, would it not?



perhaps they dont share the same SE because they are in fact two different people. So if we cant reproduce the SAME subjective experience when we re-create "you" cell for cell then what is missing? All the material criteria are met...

So if we cant reproduce the SAME subjective experience when we re-create "you" cell for cell then what is missing? All the material criteria are met...

What you get is different people entirely....Walked differently....

That being said..You will still see genetic predisposition show nonetheless..

... you are infinitely less long-winded than I

... if you mean by that that you reproduce the same memories of subjective experience when you copy "me", then yes - that is theoretically possible ... and as far as the doppelganger is aware, he is "me" because he has my memories (up to the point that I was copied) ... but as far as the dying "I" am aware, the doppelganger is "he" ... what is missing is continuity ... "I" am a process ... make an exact duplicate of my materiality and give it life, and you have created a new process - one that exists distinct from "I" - just as if he were my twin (the only difference being that we divided long after birth) ... from your perspective, the difference between me and the doppelganger is minor - the two of us share the exact same memories up to a point, the only difference being that I actually lived those memories and the doppelganger did not ... but from my perspective, the difference between me and the doppelganger is everything - he is but a twin ... when I breath my last breath - when "I" as a process come to an end - it is indeed the end of "I" ... my doppelganger twin may live on, just as a natural twin may outlive its sibling - but "I" am just as dead as that natural twin's dead sibling ...

It seems there are still some questions in need of answering. From what you said it seems the doppelganger would have the same memories but a different SE. If my SE cannot be reproduced then how was it produced in the first place? If no two of the same SEs can exist then doesnt that imply an infinite number of SEs that can be produced? and if that were the case then wouldnt there be an infinite number of possiblilities of SEs that could have been me? That seems problamatic, for it reminds me of the infinite amount of time problem... if there was an infinite amount of time then we would never reach now because it would go back infinitely.

... it sounds like you're expecting "me" and the doppelganger to have the exact same subjective experience moving forward from the time you copied me ... that is like expecting natural twins to have the exact same subjective experience moving forward from the time the egg divided in the womb ... neither can be the case.

As for infinities, they are of human imagination ... can there be an infinite number of copies of "me"? ... no, simply because there is a finite amount of matter and space in the universe ... but even with finite matter and space, there are already billions of trillions of subjective experiences going on in the terrestrial biomass as we speak.

ohh man "TIME" is "Relative" check the "Science" behind you "thoughts"...

-BaC

... it sounds like you're expecting "me" and the doppelganger to have the exact same subjective experience moving forward from the time you copied me ... that is like expecting natural twins to have the exact same subjective experience moving forward from the time the egg divided in the womb ... neither can be the case.

As for infinities, they are of human imagination ... can there be an infinite number of copies of "me"? ... no, simply because there is a finite amount of matter and space in the universe ... but even with finite matter and space, there are already billions of trillions of subjective experiences going on in the terrestrial biomass as we speak.

And yet shouldnt there be a causal reason for my SE to exist? Or are we saying its just "random" and we all just got lucky...? But if we are saying its just random and your SE is some sort of signiture, why now? why later? why at all? In a limitless supply of SEs to choose from I just got "lucky"....?