Is God evil?

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Seems like an odd question, but I've been thinking about this ever since I read a weird book called "The Armageddon Conspiracy" by mike hockney in which a group of people plot to kill God. The book presents the Gnostic view of history and this amounts to a belief that the material world was created by an evil demon (Satan) for the purpose of entrapping souls. Since it says in the Bible that "God" created the earth then "God" must be Satan (or so the Gnostics concluded). The True God, meanwhile, lives in a spiritual paradise that has no connection with the earth. It's the task of a Gnostic to see reality as it really is and acquire the secret knowledge (gnosis) to allow his soul to be freed from its prison in this world and return to heaven.

The curious thing is that the "God" worshipped by Christians, Jews and Muslims is, according to the Gnostics, pure evil. Isn't it amazing that billions of people worship a God that some people believe to be the very quintessence of wickedness? Judging by some of the things that Christians, Jews and Muslims inflict on their fellow human beings (mass murder, torture, inquisition, suicide bombings, massacres, death camps, rampant greed etc), don't the Gnostics have a good case?

One of the reasons that religion is so absurd is that it frequently allows the opposite views to be arrived at from precisely the same theological "facts". The Gnostics and the Christians both accept that "God" created the earth, but the former conclude that this was an act of evil while the latter celebrate it as a great and glorious thing. Same "facts": entirely different conclusions. Religion is just a matter of interpretation, opinion and taste. There are no objective standards whatever. Some religions can actually contain diametrically opposed views...for example, how is it possible for an extreme capitalist and an extreme left winger to both claim that they are good Christians obeying God's will? At least one must be wholly wrong.

In democratic terms, no religion on earth commands the allegiance of more than about 16% of the world's population (Catholic Christianity and non-Catholic Christianity must, of course, be considered as separate religions since they have precious little in common). So, whatever set of beliefs you choose to adopt, at least 84% of the world's population say you're wrong. Isn't it bizarre that people who trumpet the wonders of democracy, reject utterly the rule of democracy in terms of religion? The democratic verdict regarding every religion is that it's wrong. In political terms, people are willing to accept the majority view. In religion, they reject it. How weird!! Shouldn't the fact that no matter what religion they belong to, religious believers are in a tiny minority, cause them pause for thought and make them question their beliefs? The Jewish religion is particularly small, and not much interested in recruiting "outsiders". If 99.9% of the world reject Judaism, doesn't that imply a certain degree of arrogance on the part of the Jewish religion? How can democratic and religious thinking coexist? Is it as case of Orwellian doublethink?

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@franciscus,

The trouble when you agree with a thread it does not require a reply..

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@xris,

Some things about Gnosticism - it's not Satan who is God. Instead, Gnostics reason that since God created the world, and since the world is imperfect, God must also be imperfect. This creator god is called the demiurge. The demiurge is not necessarily pure evil, only imperfect. Gnostics associate the demiurge with the God of the Old Testament.
Later movements, like Catharism, did develop the Gnostic notion of a demiurge into the idea that God is Satan.

To call religion absurd because religion lacks objective standards does not make much sense to me.
To call scripture fact is to miss the point. Scripture is not fact, it's mythology. Interpetation must exist because no two humans are the same.
No single religion is right and all of the others wrong. Consider:
You want to look at the moon so you ask your friends to point at the moon. Each friendpoints a different way according to their perspective, and so each hand is different. The object they point at is the same, but the directions are all different. Such is religion. They all point to the same thing, but in their own unique way due to social and environmental conditions. Diversity in religion is good.

Democracy and religion can coexist quite easily. Democracy requires diverse perspectives to be embraced, and religion also benefits by this practice. Religion isn't about being right and wrong in any logical context, religion is about cultivating compassion.

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@franciscus,

The religious can be arrogant, of course. So can anyone who believes they know what is best for all.

My personal opinion is, if the religious claim their belief is based on evidence and reason, they are rightly called upon to back up their claims with evidence and reason, and subject to criticism if they fail to do so. If they attempt to force their opinions on others, they are rightly told to be quiet and leave other people alone. If they attempt to harm others based on their beliefs, they should be punished.

If they don't claim their belief is based on evidence and reason, don't try to force their opinions on others, or harm others, then leave them alone. Let them believe as they like. There is a certain arrogance in being a "missionary" for science and reason, also.

As for God being evil, the existence of evil is a problem for those who believe in a personal God, responding to prayer and intervening in our lives, that I think has never been satisfactorily solved.

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@franciscus,

The Bible speaks of the Satan being thrown down to earth. It is not clear whether that event has already happened or is yet to be.
As the Christ is being tempted after 40 days in the desert by the Satan He is promised mastery over the world. The fact that Satan could make that promise at that moment in time is not being disputed in that passage.

Furthermore we don't really know is the creation is perfect or imperfect. After all, there are a lot or worlds in it.
For all we know, we could be living on a prison planet for chronically incurable souls(no, I don't believe that myself).
In fact, we don't even know what the word perfect is supposed to mean.

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@franciscus,

My personal opinion is that God is amoral. God, or the idea of God, inspires love, hate, joy, sorrow, good, evil, etc.,.

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@franciscus,

IMO "evil" is a term of human invention of which God has no use for if you think about it. At least the God I worship, a God whose existence I can only define as Love (of which all good things in life manifest).

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@Aphoric,

Aphoric wrote:

wtf @ "you can only have 3 lines here"

No idea what you're talking about.

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@franciscus,

Quote:

Judging by some of the things that Christians, Jews and Muslims inflict on their fellow human beings (mass murder, torture, inquisition, suicide bombings, massacres, death camps, rampant greed etc), don't the Gnostics have a good case?

Only if said Gnostic is never guilty of commiting an act of malice or greed. Unlikely at best then.

Why should religion become a democracy? A collectively agreed upon system of governance is mutually inclusive, because you can enforce laws. But a collectively agreed upon system of beliefs is mutually exclusive, because you can't make people believe.

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@Stringfellow,

Stringfellow wrote:

My personal opinion is that God is amoral. God, or the idea of God, inspires love, hate, joy, sorrow, good, evil, etc.,.

In all due respect, the word "inspires" gives me pause when you include hate, sorrow and evil. Perhaps it's just me for I have a hard time associating inspiration with hate, sorrow and evil. It is my belief those are consequences and the anthesis of the positive "nature" of the universe and that God that drives it's core. Having said that what we deem "amoral" constitutes an understanding of what morality and immorality means. Amoral indicates that evil, sorrow and hate are a "part of God" and destined to be. I refuse to believe that in any context. We know what hate is; we know what sorrow is, and we know what evil is. We have the power to "fix" those.

Now to answer the question to the original post. "Is God Evil". The answer is yes. In that we are of that God, IMO, it would be just to say that God is evil. Will God tolerate it? Absolutely "NOT". IMO. :detective:
William

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@franciscus,

If god created a world of good and evil for any selfish reason then we can at least reason that he is capable of amorality.
if we were to view god as a personality we could view his actions as an expression of that personality and not view the two as the same thing. For example let us say there is a wise and good ruler of a kingdom. He chooses selfishly once and people die. Is he evil for making one bad choices.
I suppose thats all just me being wordy trying to say its possible god is not entirely good, but isn't necissarily evil.

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@aaron the red,

aaron the red wrote:

If god created a world of good and evil for any selfish reason then we can at least reason that he is capable of amorality.
if we were to view god as a personality we could view his actions as an expression of that personality and not view the two as the same thing. For example let us say there is a wise and good ruler of a kingdom. He chooses selfishly once and people die. Is he evil for making one bad choices.
I suppose thats all just me being wordy trying to say its possible god is not entirely good, but isn't necissarily evil.

The description of any god decides his morality...the described gods are evil and to justify their actions as anything else is futile...

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@aaron the red,

aaron the red wrote:

If god created a world of good and evil for any selfish reason then we can at least reason that he is capable of amorality.
if we were to view god as a personality we could view his actions as an expression of that personality and not view the two as the same thing. For example let us say there is a wise and good ruler of a kingdom. He chooses selfishly once and people die. Is he evil for making one bad choices.
I suppose thats all just me being wordy trying to say its possible god is not entirely good, but isn't necissarily evil.

Aaron, IMO, "if's" as it relates to God gets us into trouble as we attempt to equate God to us and our so very limited understanding of that God. "Amorality, good and evil" are our words and serve to express a clear delineation that allows us to realize we are making mistakes. When we apply those "words" to God, we get into trouble for then we assume good and evil as a duality and an "innate" part of man's blueprint. Bad, bad mistake, IMO.

That necessitates us to become inured to that evil and forces us to "live" with "it" as we build defenses to protect us from "it". In this regard we neglect to observe the harmony that is so prevalent around us that is a universal construct forcing us to separate ourselves from that construct and that is what created what we know as "evil". We will never be able to eliminate evil as long as we ignore the fact that we are a part of that construct rather than apart from it. Evil is nothing more than dis-harmony, and instead of reaching that understanding, we ignore it as we have learned to "live with evil". Not good. Not good at all. We like to allay blame, being the perfect creation we are. We don't like to to think of our culpability. It is much easier to point a finger. It's much easier to deal with believing we were "created flawed". That's impossible, when you truly think about it. The universe is not "flawed". Neither are we. It is just the vanity of our hubris that prevents us from admitting to that. It's time we stopped trying to "blame" God and admitted to our own mistakes and realize dis-harmony is not of that universal construct and begin to strive to reach global harmony, or we will indeed self destruct. No doubt about it. Global harmony is not a pipedream, it's a necessity. Hell is the alternative. What ever that might be. I votte for harmony. :a-ok:
William

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@William,

William wrote:

Aaron, IMO, "if's" as it relates to God gets us into trouble as we attempt to equate God to us and our so very limited understanding of that God. "Amorality, good and evil" are our words and serve to express a clear delineation that allows us to realize we are making mistakes. When we apply those "words" to God, we get into trouble for then we assume good and evil as a duality and an "innate" part of man's blueprint. Bad, bad mistake, IMO.

That necessitates us to become inured to that evil and forces us to "live" with "it" as we build defenses to protect us from "it". In this regard we neglect to observe the harmony that is so prevalent around us that is a universal construct forcing us to separate ourselves from that construct and that is what created what we know as "evil". We will never be able to eliminate evil as long as we ignore the fact that we are a part of that construct rather than apart from it. Evil is nothing more than dis-harmony, and instead of reaching that understanding, we ignore it as we have learned to "live with evil". Not good. Not good at all. We like to allay blame, being the perfect creation we are. We don't like to to think of our culpability. It is much easier to point a finger. It's much easier to deal with believing we were "created flawed". That's impossible, when you truly think about it. The universe is not "flawed". Neither are we. It is just the vanity of our hubris that prevents us from admitting to that. It's time we stopped trying to "blame" God and admitted to our own mistakes and realize dis-harmony is not of that universal construct and begin to strive to reach global harmony, or we will indeed self destruct. No doubt about it. Global harmony is not a pipedream, it's a necessity. Hell is the alternative. What ever that might be. I votte for harmony. :a-ok:
William

Sorry Will but how can you say we are not flawed and then say we are making mistakes...

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@xris,

I highly Doubt "God" is any single thing. God is more likely Everything in the universe. So why ask if he is evil. Most likely its another pointless thing in which we could relate with. As to understanding God? Vibrations seem to be direction in which I could understand all things, aka "GOD".

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@xris,

xris wrote:

Sorry Will but how can you say we are not flawed and then say we are making mistakes...

Simple, we don't know what perfect is. Perfect is not a "thing" that can be arrived at. It is an infinite goal that propels us forward. In our failure to acknowledge our infinite being as we struggle to survive life in that we deem it "terminal", we make mistakes in that hastened pace in which we strive to get all that "terminal" life has to offer before we "kick the bucket". That's where the mistakes come from. It's all a part of the over all process. For us to understand our perfection, we needed to know what inperfection is all about. The problem is we have used our knowledge to survive with the imperfection. It's just a matter of how much imperfection we will be able to deal with before that from which we were created starts US over again. Once you become to realize the eternal nature of our existence, you begin to realize how short a time we have been here and the infinite future that await us. Whatever that may be. I promise you imperfection will not get us there, but efforts to reach the ideal we call perfection will and harmony has everything to do with it.

William

1 Reply

@William,

William wrote:

Simple, we don't know what perfect is. Perfect is not a "thing" that can be arrived at. It is an infinite goal that propels us forward. In our failure to acknowledge our infinite being as we struggle to survive life in that we deem it "terminal", we make mistakes in that hastened pace in which we strive to get all that "terminal" life has to offer before we "kick the bucket". That's where the mistakes come from. It's all a part of the over all process. For us to understand our perfection, we needed to know what inperfection is all about. The problem is we have used our knowledge to survive with the imperfection. It's just a matter of how much imperfection we will be able to deal with before that from which we were created starts US over again. Once you become to realize the eternal nature of our existence, you begin to realize how short a time we have been here and the infinite future that await us. Whatever that may be. I promise you imperfection will not get us there, but efforts to reach the ideal we call perfection will and harmony has everything to do with it.

William

Your avoiding the truth..perfection does not fail the tests put before it and if its known to be perfect its not even tested..would you expect your god to be tested does he compare to our perfection?? Does your god need these tests to attain enlightenment and if does not why does he imply we do?

1 Reply

@franciscus,

If God is, then God is all... That is the default setting, and there is no other...

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido wrote:

If God is, then God is all... That is the default setting, and there is no other...

wot in heavens does that mean...are you some eastern mystic..

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

wot in heavens does that mean...are you some eastern mystic..

Simple... God made everything... What did he make it out of? If it was there before God, Who made it; and who made God???

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Is God evil?

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