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Wed 2 Sep, 2009 04:30 pm
If any of you have been following my posts in this section, you'll have noticed that I'm (apparently) very pessimistic on the future of the United States. Today I'm posting to state that my opinion is beginning to change, emphasis on beginning. Over the past year or so I've been learning about the relationship, longstanding, between high finance capital and authoritarian collectivism, which at first glance, would appear to be polar opposities. I've tried to express my understanding of this relationship to anyone on this forum who's cared to listen, and probably quite a few who didn't, but who patiently suffered through my lectures anyway.
To reiterate this relationship briefly; high finance capital, by which I mean the primary and dominant banking and corporate interests of the West, especially in the United States and Britain, does not have any use for or interest in free markets, or laizze faire systems. It has, does and presumably will in the future, prefer state sanctioned monopolies or cartels. The ideal system for these oligarchs is one in which there is no free market at all and no competition, one in which the entire economic system consists of state monopolies, for production, distribution, etc: i.e. a collectivist, authoritarian system. Such a system is bad for business in general, but great for any specific business which happens to have the ear (or throat) of government, and thereby gets to operate these monopolies without competition or responsibility to customers. For this reason, the western financial oligarchy has funded the Soviet Union, fascist Italy, fascist Germany, communist China, and the Roosevelt administration (during which, lest we forget, we barely avoided a fascist military coup), among other authoritarian regimes. Individual members of the finance oligarchy have consistently offered lavish praise for authoritarian governments, in op-eds and articles for mainstream newspapers for example, or throught the publications of the thinktanks and foundations they establish. This history only reinforces my basic conviction that there are but two truly opposed political ideologies; individualism and collectivism, and collectivism has always been (despite the hope of idealistic social democrats, anarcho-communists, etc.) a game played by and for the greatest powers that be. Orwell was right, he was just a little off with the timing. The enemy of freedom is not communism, though that's a mask worn by the enemy; the enemy is oligarchical collectivism, or fascism. This has, more or less, been the dominant form of government throughout human history. The present form is just more scientifically enforced, better planned, and directed by the modern version of hereditary nobility: the ultra-wealthy. Once the full picture is grasped, it's really not that unfamiliar to someone familiar with history. Some have called this system neo-feudalism.
In any case, I digress, my purpose in writing today is not to convince you of this theory, but rather to say to those who understand it already, that there may be some light at the end of the tunnel. Ordinarily, I'm extremely skeptical of the popular media, and for very good reasons. I have enjoyed watching Glenn Beck for a few months now, almost a year in fact, despite my opinion that he was just another shill, albeit a more clever one, who rather than ignoring the issues, was attempting to redirect the public anger about them. E.g., he, along with FOX in general, attempted to co-opt the 'tea-parties,' thereby making them partisan and easier to dismiss by other media factions. However, I've noticed, especially in the last month or two, an increasing, and shocking, level of honesty in Beck. He's been describing in detail the movement toward authoritarianism in this country, on all fronts: the service agenda, pseudo-environmentalism (i.e. anti-humanism), attacks on free speech, government usurpation of a mind-boggling number of new economic powers, the Fed's role, etc. I've been smiling though as he tried to pin these evils on the 'progressives' and the democrats, while carefully avoiding mention of the obvious connection to high finance. Well, today, towards the end of his show, Beck noted the fascistic and communistic artwork commisioned by the Rockefeller family (arch-capitalists) in Rockefeller center, the NBC building, and elsewhere in NYC, and asked the question I've been waiting for someone with a mass audience to ask; who is really in favor of this new collectivism; who's driving it, a bunch of hippies and college professors? No, the ultra-rich 'capitalists' themselves!
If he continues in this vein, I think other shows might pick it up. Even if they don't, this could be the beginning of a mass realization of what's really going on in this country. Now, before the anti-Beck people start eviscerating me, let me say; yes, I'm aware of Beck's faults, I do not agree with the man (clown) on many issues, many (the 'war on terror' e.g) but if he can get out this basic message (that we are being pushed into authoritarian collectivism by the ultra-rich for their own purposes: control), then I'm with him all the way. Go Glenn Go!
Anyone for freedom?
Come gather round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
Youll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin
Then you better start swimmin
Or youll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin.
Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance wont come again
And dont speak too soon
For the wheels still in spin
And theres no tellin who
That its namin.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin.
Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Dont stand in the doorway
Dont block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
Theres a battle outside
And it is ragin.
Itll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin.
Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And dont criticize
What you cant understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin.
Please get out of the new one
If you cant lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin.
The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin.
@BrightNoon,
BrightNoon;87763 wrote:
Anyone for freedom?
Yes.
Unfortunately though, most people do not seem to be. People tend to be collectivist; it is in our nature. As Milton Friedman said, the 'liberal' (read: libertarian) is the true progressive. Human societies have always tended to be more collectivist and controlled, and they always tend to move in that direction, without some serious intervention. The problem is that in order to "intervene" and get us back on the road to a system that values individual liberty over security, there would need to be some type of political coup and takeover or something at this point, which by its very nature goes against the libertarian cry.
Most people would rather follow than lead. To be told what to do, what to think, how to behave, and what to value is secure and stable. An individual taking the reins in general is seen as risky behavior, that of some type of old rugged cowboy or outlaw, a part of our past which we can only explore now through action movies and video games.
I think Jefferson got it right; government is always, slowly but surely, perverted into tyranny. Compare the reality and intentions of the original constitution in this country to what we effectively have now.
The spark that caused the US revolution and the formation of the new government was excessive power demanding unreasonable requests from the people. And so it will require a similar breaking point for people to start up some new revolution and demand that the huge machine hand back their liberties once again...and then slowly, the machine will be rebuilt once more. I think it is cyclical. And the stranglehold that the military-industrial complex and mass media have on this country now can not be fixed or thrown out using legitimate politics, but I think in time it will become intolerable, and people will make some sort of stand. Then again, in this day and age, the powers in charge could probably thwart any type of revolution by promising free TV and xboxes for all! :bigsmile:
I'm pessimistic because all great powers come to an end, and it's always because of the corrupting influence of power on those in charge. With that said, I'd still rather live here than most places on this earth, without a doubt, but the direction we're heading I think is a troubling one.
@Pangloss,
Yes, I still think that our present trajectory will only be altered by a violent revolution, though hopefully I'm wrong. The question is, what sort of revolution? Too often, people are pressed to revolt, only to watch their revolutionairy ferver be co-opted by the very powers against which they were revolting in the first place, and so they end up in a tyranny as bad as, if not worse than, the one they started with. The hope I now have is that, when it comes time for a line to be drawn, the people will be educated enough to know why and where they must draw that line, and what sort of goal they should have for when the dust settles following the authority's crossing of that line. There is, as a you said, a tendency in human political arrangements toward developing collectivism in one form or another; in modern times, collectivism has been the obvious solution to poverty, inequality, the tyranny of the rich, etc. However, if people understand the connection between high finance and collectivism, the chance that a revolution would result in a collectivist state should be less. Out of chaos, order...we just have to make sure it's the right order.
@BrightNoon,
BrightNoon;87763 wrote: the western financial oligarchy has funded the Soviet Union, fascist Italy, fascist Germany, communist China...
my purpose in writing today is not to convince you of this theory, but rather to say to those who understand it already.....
So is this why there is no documentation or footnotes for any of these claims? I mean I would be astonished to know that Wall Street funded communism or nazism. Are there any references for this, or has it something that has been carefully concealed by the mainstream media all this century? Are there any texts on it? And is this why you don't write to convince anyone save those who understand it already?
Incidentally, I certainly agree that democratic freedom is the first step in social freedom. But beyond that, people are mainly enslaved by their own cravings and delusions aren't they? Abe Lincoln: 'most people are as happy as they want to be.' Sure, capitalism is expert at manipulating that, and it is in capitalism's interests if the average consumer is compliant, greedy and easily led (i.e. 'consume, be silent, die'). But if anybody wants to break out of it, they can. Even, or especially, in America.
@BrightNoon,
i dont think it has to be a violent revolution-not this time.
the major freedom on the top of my list most people dont even mention is freedom of thought, and the individual is the only one who can ensure that. if that were achieved, education would not be necessary (as it is understood by me to be indoctrination by an institution). self education is what matters, and especially the interest or motivation to seek it.
to me it isnt even so much importance what has been going on or who is behind the scenes controlling it, as is the fact that most people are ignorant of it and further than that, unconcerned about it. most members on this forum are thinkers-most people in the world are not. this is where revolution is necessary.
@BrightNoon,
BrightNoon, great post. I agree with you completely and I also feel that anything that would come to replace our current system would end up being worse than what we currently have. The reason is, there is not a whole lot of people screaming for change. The majority think BO is the change they wanted so how can we get a good system when people are not educated enough to make a reasonable choice? People in the US are TOO complacent to care if the government has them in it's best interest or just trying to pull the wool over their eyes. There just isn't enough people who care anymore, they have been convinced that solving problems is the governments job not theirs. So they leave it up to the government to decide. Which is not what the US was founded on.
We shouldn't of had a bill of rights but I feel had we not, we would be worse off today than we currently are. That in itself speaks volumes about just how bad our current political strategy is today.
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;87766 wrote:
Incidentally, I certainly agree that democratic freedom is the first step in social freedom. But beyond that, people are mainly enslaved by their own cravings and delusions aren't they?
The issue comes down to information-flow. Once a system establishes itself, it begins to centralize by choking the information-flow to fit the interests of those in power. Those people with the least access to accurate and varied information-sources are more susceptible to enslavement. It's all about communications systems within the hierarchy.
Quote:Abe Lincoln: 'most people are as happy as they want to be.'
Maybe this is the case of white upper-class westerners in first world countries, but a person in the labor class who works 10-12 hours a day to support a family, only to get fucked again and again by a system that fills the pockets of the already-rich bureaucrats who do nothing to actually uphold and maintain the infrastructure that they use. This can of course be spun off to say that such a set-up is "providing jobs" for the labor class, but the whole self-serving nature of the system makes me want to burn it to the ground.
Quote:Sure, capitalism is expert at manipulating that, and it is in capitalism's interests if the average consumer is compliant, greedy and easily led (i.e. 'consume, be silent, die'). But if anybody wants to break out of it, they can. Even, or especially, in America.
What does that even mean, "break out"? Avoid taxes? Become nomadic?
No, the system has got you by the balls lock stock and barrel. The best you can hope for is some sort of intellectual, spiritual freedom.
Even then, most people eat McDonald's instead.
Oh well.
@rhinogrey,
You post Bob Dylan lyrics after commending Glenn Beck, who is one of the most repulsive talking heads around?
BrightNoon, I dig ya, man, but that's blasphemous.
Sorry, my friend, Glenn Beck is not getting the message out - he's spreading hate and fear. And you know how I feel about large corporations. Beck, even more so than a mention of Jackson in an earlier thread, is the last person to be cited. Beck is part of the big money push. He's a cog in the wheel you so despise. He's part of the misinformation cog, which is the most vital part of that malign machine.
@BrightNoon,
On a tangent I watched this classic monologue from the movie Network today. It is a satirical movie, and the speaker Beale is a loony being exploited for ratings, but his words ring pretty true:
Quote:I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's work, banks are going bust, shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter. Punks are running wild in the street and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it. We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat, and we sit watching our TV's while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be. We know things are bad - worse than bad. They're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we are living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, 'Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.' Well, I'm not gonna leave you alone. I want you to get mad! I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot - I don't want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you've got to get mad.
It is not so important that people know how what to change and how to change. It is firstly important that the revolutionary fervor is ignited and maintained.
The problem with Beck and others of his ilk will be just as quick to stifle dissent as ignite it, depending on his demographics.
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas;87848 wrote:You post Bob Dylan lyrics after commending Glenn Beck, who is one of the most repulsive talking heads around?
BrightNoon, I dig ya, man, but that's blasphemous.
Sorry, my friend, Glenn Beck is not getting the message out - he's spreading hate and fear. And you know how I feel about large corporations. Beck, even more so than a mention of Jackson in an earlier thread, is the last person to be cited. Beck is part of the big money push. He's a cog in the wheel you so despise. He's part of the misinformation cog, which is the most vital part of that malign machine.
Heh...I was wondering how long it would take for someone to point this out.
I used to occasionally watch Beck, because he is entertaining of course. He sometimes did and probably still does make some good points about how our freedoms in this country are constantly diminishing.
Of course, these points he makes are cleverly thrown in the midst of much praise for the Republicans, fear mongering, blood thirsty war cries, idiotic rants, and some hateful comments towards certain groups of people. Not to mention, the guy comes off more as a comedian than a serious talk host. I'd say he's more like John Stewart than any other network "news" host, though less funny. He's just a charlatan.
@Pangloss,
Pangloss;87852 wrote:Heh...I was wondering how long it would take for someone to point this out.
I used to occasionally watch Beck, because he is entertaining of course. He sometimes did and probably still does make some good points about how our freedoms in this country are constantly diminishing.
Of course, these points he makes are cleverly thrown in the midst of much praise for the Republicans, fear mongering, blood thirsty war cries, idiotic rants, and some hateful comments towards certain groups of people. Not to mention, the guy comes off more as a comedian than a serious talk host. I'd say he's more like John Stewart than any other network "news" host, though less funny. He's just a charlatan.
jon stewart is my hero! i have no idea who beck is , but from what has been said here he is nothing like jon stewart. jon stewart is a comedian and as far as i know doesnt pretend to do a newscast, but a satire on whatever news stories he finds preposterous, and there are so many to choose from. he has never been guilty of fear mongering, war cries, or idiotic rants. and if he delivers any hateful comments against groups of people, i think they are always people in places of power abusing authority and wealth and hurting others as well as causing damage to the environment.
@salima,
salima;87856 wrote:jon stewart is my hero! i have no idea who beck is , but from what has been said here he is nothing like jon stewart. jon stewart is a comedian and as far as i know doesnt pretend to do a newscast, but a satire on whatever news stories he finds preposterous, and there are so many to choose from. he has never been guilty of fear mongering, war cries, or idiotic rants. and if he delivers any hateful comments against groups of people, i think they are always people in places of power abusing authority and wealth and hurting others as well as causing damage to the environment.
You're right, he's not much like stewart...but he is more of a comedian I guess than any of the other main 'news' hosts. I find it hard to take the guy seriously when he switches between seemingly heartfelt statements on america's freedom, hate-filled rants, and attempts at comedy.
One of his more recent stunts can be seen here:
YouTube - GlennBeckisaCryBaby.com - Extended *English subtitles added*
There are all sorts of clips you can find that show the guy's lunacy.
@BrightNoon,
I sure understand why groups with close white house ties try to pressure Beck off the air.
If the people should actually awake from their comfort induced coma to revolt against the loss of their freedom, my bets are that the response will merely be: "Bad luck. Now we got the technical gadgets to crush your little revolution. How about you work a little longer and consume a little less... you know, because of global warming."
@chad3006,
Pangloss;87852 wrote:
I used to occasionally watch Beck, because he is entertaining of course. He sometimes did and probably still does make some good points about how our freedoms in this country are constantly diminishing.
No, no he does not. Freedom is not diminishing in the US. What is diminishing is the superiority of white people over minorities. That is what Beck is complaining about.
Pangloss;87852 wrote:Of course, these points he makes are cleverly thrown in the midst of much praise for the Republicans, fear mongering, blood thirsty war cries, idiotic rants, and some hateful comments towards certain groups of people. Not to mention, the guy comes off more as a comedian than a serious talk host. I'd say he's more like John Stewart than any other network "news" host, though less funny. He's just a charlatan.
You're mostly right here, I can't argue. He is somewhat more like Stewart, but then again, Beck is just like everyone else at Fox News - in your words, a charlatan. Then again, most of these talking heads are just that.
He is unlike Stewart in that Stewart is a bright satirist, while Beck is an obtuse fear monger.
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas;88063 wrote:No, no he does not. Freedom is not diminishing in the US. What is diminishing is the superiority of white people over minorities. That is what Beck is complaining about.
Oh my God, are you serious? Not wanting to face the ugly truth is one thing, but believing in some sort of white-people conspiracy is another.
Freedom is constantly diminishing, with activist judges overturning the will of the people, oppressive taxation without representation (and when you complain about it, you get called a racist), and the government enforcing racism in the form of policies like disparate impact - hurting both whites and blacks and separating them along racial lines. Very much to the liking of politicians who love the idea of races voting in blocks.
@EmperorNero,
Dude, I am white. It's not conspiracy, it's history. Grab a book on the subject.
Freedom is not constantly diminishing. Activist judges giving minorities liberty? Taxation without representation - what do you think happened after the Civil War to African Americans, a condition only recently reversed?
Government enforcing racism? Give me a break.
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas;88071 wrote:Dude, I am white. It's not conspiracy, it's history. Grab a book on the subject.
Freedom is not constantly diminishing. Activist judges giving minorities liberty? Taxation without representation - what do you think happened after the Civil War to African Americans, a condition only recently reversed?
Government enforcing racism? Give me a break.
All are losing their freedom, blacks and whites alike.
What does the civil war have to do with the oppressed, overtaxed minority not having representation and being called racists when they protest about it? Because, you know, most taxes are paid by white people. But that is NOT racism for some reason.
And to the fact that the state enforces racism your response is "Give me a break"?
@EmperorNero,
Again, grab a book.
Try looking up Jim Crow, for instance.
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas;88077 wrote:Again, grab a book.
Try looking up Jim Crow, for instance.
I'm well aware of history. What does that have to do with the contemporary issues?
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