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God, Faust, And The Wonderful Mephistopheles

 
 
Pessimist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2008 03:45 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Dear Didymos,


In the stories and traditions of religion it explains how god created evil yet if you don't take these specified foundations of religion seriously or literally I wonder why you are even religious at all.

Since the foundation of religion is stories or myth that means language is the insight into god yet obviously somehow you want me to go beyond language which you know I can't do.

Justin wrote:
Pessimist - That makes a whole lot more sense. I'm not saying that it's wrong to believe in God but it's the definition of God that one perceives makes the difference. God didn't create the evil in this world, nor did lucifer... Man created it just as man continues to create it.

The stories of Lucifer fighting with angels or the angles that were fighting with lucifer... these are all man thought and man created stories. If one of them were present when this was taking place and could have documented this, it would be different. You gotta have faith in something man created and wrote to believe.

Man has one heck of an imagination... always has.


Quote:
Pessimist - That makes a whole lot more sense. I'm not saying that it's wrong to believe in God but it's the definition of God that one perceives makes the difference. God didn't create the evil in this world, nor did lucifer... Man created it just as man continues to create it.
Even without a god as a atheistic determinist I could say evolution or the big bang created man where destruction became a ingrained integral part of his nature.

So even with that I would say that destruction is not somthing beyond man that he comes to embrace by choice but instead is somthing born with him biologically which is already determined in his genetics. ( Shrugs.)
Justin
 
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Reply Mon 5 May, 2008 04:26 pm
@Pessimist,
Pessimist wrote:
In the stories and traditions of religion it explains how god created evil yet if you don't take these specified foundations of religion seriously or literally I wonder why you are even religious at all.

Since the foundation of religion is stories or myth that means language is the insight into god yet obviously somehow you want me to go beyond language which you know I can't do.

It's stories and traditions that have helped to maintain a level of control over man. If he fears a God or fears doing evil because God can see all he does, then some will actually not do evil. Religions have been the fall of man not the raising of man. It's what we all still fight about today... and No, I'm not religious. That doesn't mean that I think doing evil is OK either. Religion is defined by man. Nature and creation by God, (again, perception of God).

Quote:
Even without a god as a atheistic determinist I could say evolution or the big bang created man where destruction became a ingrained integral part of his nature.
There's another label created by man, "atheistic determinist". You just are. The label may describe a belief or a dogmatic way of thought, but you just are and the greatest of all man and scientist have been unable to explain this one.

The assertion of big bang theory is a guess so you could say that. However, whether it happened or not, what difference does it make in your tomorrow?... or mine.

Quote:
So even with that I would say that destruction is not somthing beyond man that he comes to embrace by choice but instead is somthing born with him biologically.
If you believe this statement to be true, then you are absolutely 100% correct. Likewise if you believe it untrue you are absolutely 100% correct.

I have come to the understanding that destruction and evil is present in every man just as the still light of God and love is also present. We have a choice of which to embrace and that choice is based on how we perceive the world, our lives and this notion of God. Much of this has to do with what we see and how we respond to what we see. If we look deep enough past the sight of our eyes into the very depths of who and what we are, we may discover a light in man that goes unrecognized otherwise.

There's a thing called balance and no matter what, there is going to be balance in creation whether we like it or not. We as spiritual ether are balanced by the body of men. Do we recognize ourselves as all man or do we look deeper into the who and what we are? Man identifying himself as body will naturally lean towards the evil and selfish ways of the body. When man recognizes himself as spiritual, then the desires of the flesh are less present if at all.

One thing leads to another... These are my thoughts and not directed towards anyone in particular. Just thoughts based on the current discussion.
Didymos Thomas
 
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Reply Mon 5 May, 2008 05:08 pm
@Justin,
Quote:
In the stories and traditions of religion it explains how god created evil yet if you don't take these specified foundations of religion seriously or literally I wonder why you are even religious at all.


The stories you mention are numerous and varied in content. In the Christian tradition, I disagree with the notion that the stories explain how God created evil.

The reason I do not take the stories literally is because I take them seriously. If we take the stories literally, they are not much more than silly fairy tales.

Quote:
Religions have been the fall of man not the raising of man.


Justin, I expect more from you. You should know that religions have been the fall of man, and that religions have also been the raising of man.

No one can deny that religion has caused a great deal of trouble - and that's putting things lightly. But we also cannot deny that religion has been a great benefit for many.

Just like anything else, it's all about how we use it. I can use a gun to hunt for food and feed my starving family, or I can use a gun to kill innocent individuals. In first first case, the gun is wonderful because it allows me to feed my starving family, in the second case, the gun is terrible because I use it for ill.
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John Galt phil
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2008 07:56 pm
@Pessimist,
A man and wife create a child. That child will inevidably committ evil acts throughout his or her lifetime. Can one argue that the father and mother are responsible for all of their son/daughter's evil acts? That would be absurd. There's a reason that most monothestic religions give creedance to a father/son (daughter) analogous relationship. Amongst other principles, it highlights the choice to choose. A choice to depart/ambrace general and revealed truths. A choice to react in or without love. It baffles me (and this is not directed towards anyone responding in this thread) that the "what" part of God's creation is so often assumed.
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